Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoilers)

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

But we were told in the film that the majority of the fleet was dealing with some event in the Laurentian system.

But surely they'd still have a dedicated fleet in orbit of the core worlds.

Yes, and that was the fleet that responded to the Vulcans' distress call and got trashed by Nero. No doubt whatever part of the fleet defended Vulcan would've been trashed just as effortlessly, given that the Narada's technology was 129 years more advanced.

Good god man! Haven't you seen Independence Day? A drunk strapped into an F18 can save a planet against technology suitably advanced to be considered magic...

But I do think the movie could have used a throwaway line about Vulcan's defences or lack thereof. As it is, it's just another thing for fans to flame each other about on a BBS.

 

[Sci]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Anyway, I think it's implausible that the revelation of Vulcan-Romulan kinship would've led to Vulcan's secession from the UFP or withdrawal from space or any such catastrophic things. After all, that kinship was revealed in "Balance of Terror" and it had no such impact then. The only difference here is that it happened 33 years sooner.

Well, 33 years sooner, and apparently closer to the Federation core worlds, and led to the destruction of a Federation starship in a surprise attack -- and all with no Vulcan Starfleet officers there to help mitigate the rest of the Federation's perception of Vulcan's having apparently kept their relationship with the Romulans a secret (as established in the ENT novel Kobayashi Maru).

I just don't believe it. See what I said above about German-Americans. Even if there were some degree of backlash, it's absurd that it would be so extreme as to cause a starfaring civilization to retreat entirely within the bounds of its home system. It would be an insane overreaction, either on the part of Vulcans to be so terrified of backlash or on the part of other races to develop such fanatical bigotry toward Vulcans as to drive them back to their homeworld. It's just a ridiculously extreme notion, and there's absolutely no reason to suggest or advocate it because there's not a shred of evidence that there aren't still millions of Vulcans offworld.

Um, hi, my name is Sci, and I was arguing that Vulcan secession was a possibility, not Vulcan withdrawal from the outside universe.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

But I do think the movie could have used a throwaway line about Vulcan's defences or lack thereof. As it is, it's just another thing for fans to flame each other about on a BBS.

And by the time you've added 30 such lines, in an attempt to pacify a few diehard fans, you've easily added 15 minutes to the film's running time. And "the fans" have way more than 30 nitpicks.

Diehard fans are capable of joining dots themselves. TOS itself had some wonderfully sparse scripts.

Why do people always complain that they want a movie to spoon-feed them, and yet when a movie does spoon-feed something, it's seen as patronizing and unnecessary? If a movie was so perfect that everyone is totally satisfied, there'd be nothing left to talk about.

Note that the usually-jaded professional critics - and the general movie-going public - seem to have embraced this movie, and are not doing too much complaining about plot holes and nits.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

But I do think the movie could have used a throwaway line about Vulcan's defences or lack thereof. As it is, it's just another thing for fans to flame each other about on a BBS.

And by the time you've added 30 such lines, in an attempt to pacify a few diehard fans, you've easily added 15 minutes to the film's running time. And "the fans" have way more than 30 nitpicks.

Diehard fans are capable of joining dots themselves. TOS itself had some wonderfully sparse scripts.

Why do people always complain that they want a movie to spoon-feed them, and yet when a movie does spoon-feed something, it's seen as patronizing and unnecessary? If a movie was so perfect that everyone is totally satisfied, there'd be nothing left to talk about.

Note that the usually-jaded professional critics - and the general movie-going public - seem to have embraced this movie, and are not doing too much complaining about plot holes and nits.

It is possible to have a smart action movie, with a sparse and intelligent script. I don't believe that Star Trek was it, but personal opinion and all that.

Shane Black, writer of Lethal Weapon gave an Interview in yesterday's Guardian, a masterclass in making action movies, with ten rules to follow (or break). I think Star Trek failed on most of these criteria.

See Rule 2 and the Destruction of Vulcan. Although Rule 3 does apply to Olsen.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

^^ Yeah, the general movie-going public also embraced Twilight and Alvin and the Chimpunks...

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Alvin and the Chimpunks...

I want a chimpunk. I want a chimpunk now!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Well, "Alvin And The Chipmunks" was better made than most of the Trek movies so that's not such a slam...

 

[Doghead]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

No offence meant particularly, but there's what, maybe a few thousand hardcore anoraks who write or read the trek novels? As opposed to mainstream media audiences in the millions. If there are any tie-ins to the new movie series they're going to be shallow and intended to be accessible for people who think themselves intelligent as well as more "average" film goers.

If LOST is any example, and it certainly is, which is why Abrams etc. were unleashed into Trek, the tie-ins will be interesting but evolutionarily dead ends. And so they should be, since the undeclared intent with Star Trek is clearly to destroy the original more elitist fanbase in favour of James Bond or Star Wars level of popularity.

Obsessive compulsives will always form a heart of empire in any media product that succeeds but I don't doubt that the new shiny glossy Trek has little to no interest in pandering to OCD central. No profit. It alienates the mainstream consumers who are the target of the harvesters.

 

[Nerroth]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

The German example is only partly accurate - while there was no expulsion of German-descent populations in places like Canada and the US, there most certainly were from various parts of central and eastern Europe during the course of 1945.

Cities, regions and communities that had existed across a large swathe of Europe for centuries were swept aside, their populations either carted off to Siberia, exiled to what is now modern Germany, or wiped out entirely.

Mind you, considering the rather horrendous treatment that the Third Reich had bestowed upon those same regions, it's not entirely unsurprising to see such a strong reaction by the war's end.

Of course, for a similar level of expulsion to happen in the UFP, worlds such as Andoria and Tellar Prime would have to be a whooooooooooooole lot less compatible politically with the very concept of Federation membership.


So, if anything, the example of what happened to German peoples post-WW2 shows that an organisation like the UFP would be less, not more, likely to forcibly produce a mass exodus from Vulcan colony worlds back to the home world.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

^My point exactly. The UFP is an enlightened, tolerant society. While there would surely be a few people who'd react like Lt. Stiles upon learning of the Vulcan-Romulan link, it's totally unrealistic to assume they'd be anything other than a minority or that their free-floating suspicion would amount to anything. Probably there'd be a few weeks of controversy from some quarters and then it would all be forgotten because of the total lack of facts to sustain it.

I, for one, didn't see a trace of anti-Vulcan prejudice directed against Spock by anyone in the movie, unless you count McCoy's "hobgoblin" line, but that's just McCoy. The only ones displaying prejudice were the Vulcans, toward humans. And that's in keeping with the way Vulcans have been portrayed in "Yesteryear," in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite," and throughout Enterprise.

 

[bismarck_1892]

New Movie - What about the books?

There are hundreds and hundreds of Star Trek books that according to the new movie either never happened or happened in a "different universe," so whats next?

Will there be nuTrek books only? NuTrek and Trek books running parallel to one another? How will this matter be approached?

 

[Brendan Moody]

Re: New Movie - What about the books?

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=91525

 

[Defcon]

Re: New Movie - What about the books?

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=91525

 

[Brendan Moody]

Re: New Movie - What about the books?

I win.

 

[Defcon]

Re: New Movie - What about the books?

I blame me not being in the US for my last place in our three man posting race.