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Trek XI to be alternate timeline, according to AICN

UWC Defiance said:
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The storytelling didn't get worse on every Trek series, every week, starting with DS9. Nor was the storytelling of TNG consistently superior to that of DS9 or Voyager or Enterprise.

If anything, a lot of people seemed to prefer the Behr/Coto eras of DS9 and "Enterprise" to the Piller/Braga beginning years of those shows.

What did go down steadily for ten years, regardless of show content, was the viewership.

People got bored.

TNG at its most successful didn't represent the best storytelling on the tube. It was, however, still reasonably novel in the experience of most of the folks watching it.

All of modern Trek sounds and looks and plays ridiculously alike; the whole "franchise" has not evolved nearly enough to compete with all the kinds of entertainment that people can choose to watch instead.

Trek died because people got bored with seeing the same kind of thing week after week for thousands of hours.

Insistence that everything be consistent with what had come before was and is a huge part of that sameness.

Quite the opposite of trek fans' insistence that the Trek milieu represents a "universe" of vast possibilities, in fact it's rather a narrow crevice that's been long since mined out and which makes good storytelling far more difficult than is worth the effort. Despite the fact that a couple of million devotees remain committed to sightseeing in that ditch, it has to change or the thing's not worth reanimating.

I... agree.

:eek:

Indeed, this is why I've said that it would ultimately have been best for Trek if it had died in 1982 with Spock and both had stayed dead. As much as I enjoy DS9, it is hardly a high water mark in terms of tv drama (TOS, for its time and context, by contrast, was). It would have been far better for SF and tv both had Trek spawned countless successful SF shows, each representing a new view and a new universe, rather than countless reiterations of the same increasingly tired milieu. Instead, we get the undignified sight of people trying to bring 1967's view of a world two hundred years hence (I maintain that TOS, by its own reckining, probably takes place in the early 23rd century rather than the late--that is, when it doesn't take place in the 28th century) in line with 2007's view of that world. New wine needs new skins, baby.

But I'll see Trek XI if it looks halfway decent because I'm a hopeless addict whose been jonesing for the shit since I was nine years old.
 
UWC Defiance said:
Well, Roddenberry did half-succeed at modernizing Trek, with TNG. If reviews from the time are any indication, audiences of the late 1980s didn't perceive it as so completely stodgy and out-of-touch despite the fact that it was a bit old-fashioned even then.

Nimoy has said, with some reference to Abrams' other work and modern movies that he often has difficulty following what's going on. It didn't seem to be a negative commentary on his part. Presumably this extends to the Trek script to some degree - that is, he seems to have been commenting upon how different the story structure and style are from what he was used to.

This makes sense to me. These days, stories aren't nearly as linear as film/TV had been in the past. Heck, when was the last time one heard; "and now, Act III of COMBAT!"... :lol:, if you get me.

TNG certainly was a part of it's time, the middle of the right wing shift in US media and culture. But TNG was always a stilted show dramatically, it never had terrific characterisation or conflict, generally. Worse, this 'stiltedness' carried on throughout all of the Berman treks... as far flung as Berman tried to make ENT it still felt like another ep of TNG or DS9 or VOY.

The rest TV was moving into the 21st Century (nuBSG for example) and story telling had become more sophisticated. Young creators were making a mark in film/TV. Singer, Whedon, Abrams, etc. They knew they could mess with story structure since they knew their young audience could follow it. Even if it's complex.

I'm not surprised Nimoy finds 21st Century film and TV story telling hard to follow at times. I bet that's not uncommon for his generation.
 
So we're back to the B & B's. They didn't know how to develop ideas. Noone was allowed to write as good, or god forbid better than them because they wouldn't allow it.
 
xortex said:
So we're back to the B & B's. They didn't know how to develop ideas. Noone was allowed to write as good, or god forbid better than them because they wouldn't allow it.

I don't mean to say Berman Era Trek didn't have loads of terrific shows, just that they all had the same feel and thus became redundant to TV audiences.
 
BalthierTheGreat said:
So whatever is "wrong" with the Treks, it can't be just oversaturation.

Yes, it can. A great part of the early appeal of TNG, at least, was simply novelty - it was an unusual tv series for a large part of its audience, families who'd never watched skiffy TV as a habit.

Skiffy is not police procedural or murder mystery, and when it becomes familiar and prosaic it loses a great deal of its holding power.
 
It was a case of the poisened tribbles. Plenty of food but no nourishment. The audience starved to death in a series full of good stories (besides 'Enterprise') because of bad production values and a lack of real creative risk taking.
 
No Trek series ever had bad production values in the context of its time--though TNG did see a marked improvement once Paramount realized the success they had on their hands and started pouring more money into it in order to get more money out.
 
Sharr Khan said:
So a fan would never come up with something that then eh? Old Spock traveling back in time to save young Kirk. I guess we need not mention one of the writers is a hardcore Trekkie

Actually the writer was only described as a "Trekkie" no hardcore attached but that's beside the point. The guy who wrote the last TNG was supposed to have been as well and I would never have noticed.
http://trekmovie.com/2007/10/04/interview-roberto-orci-on-why-he-is-a-trekkie/#more-1086

I think you`re gonna notice this time.
 
Starship Polaris said:
BalthierTheGreat said:
So whatever is "wrong" with the Treks, it can't be just oversaturation.
Well, if it was just oversaturation, than why is it that no other show that's been on the air for a long time shows the same trend. But that isn't true, if you do the same for the various spinnoffs of Law & Order, CSI, Doctor Who. But it doesn't seem to happen anywhere else. If all these other shows and spinnof had the same problem, I'd say that it was simply oversaturation. But something else has to be going on here.

My best bet is that it's somewhat behind the times right now. Most other skiffys are more serialized than the average Trek, the caracters change more, and they aren't as reluctant to make a major change in the formula (say killing off a main character). Compared to that kind of storytelling, most trek is pretty traditional.

Besides which, there were other changes. I'd like to see a comparison between audience share and tne number of TV channels. In '66 there were four, in '92 there was basic cable, now we have 500 channels. I'm sure thre's some impact just because if you have more channels, fewer people are going to be watching the same show. I'll leave TiVo to the side for a moment, because it probably has little to do with the actual problem.

My best guess is that you can't do Trek like it's 1988, because the environment has changed radically since then.
 
Gah... no alternate time lines or time-travel stories PLEASE. Trek has run the idea into the ground and, besides, for all intents and purposes this same basic plot was already done in First Contact ... not to mention the Temporal Cold War on Enterprise.

Cheers

Alex
 
cardinal biggles said:
Please, please, please tell me this is bullshit.

Need anyone say no more.

If true this would be the easiest copout to disguise (reboot) that i've ever seen.That is IF the rumorings are true.

I guess they could always say that Daniels somehow informed the Elder Spock of the messing with the timeline since Enterprise's timeline would seemingly be unscathed(except for the frozen Borg), or since last we knew Spock was on Romulus,..............well, enough of that.
 
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