Trek III: "Don't get smart, Tiny."

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It's quite disturbing how often the yeoman character is a victim of sexual assault and how often her repressed desire for Kirk rears it's head

Often someone who works in close quarters with another day in and day out can develop feelings for their superior. Whether it's a romantic crush or hero worship admiration depends on what the person's interests are.

 

[Pauln6]

Often someone who works in close quarters with another day in and day out can develop feelings for their superior. Whether it's a romantic crush or hero worship admiration depends on what the person's interests are.

I'm not suggesting that the story concept is in any way unrealistic. It's a very common TV trope and it can be very effective. I meant more that given that Grace was forced into sexual role play as the repressed Yeoman who wanted to have sex with her captain, and the number of appearances of yeomen characters (that were originally intended to be Grace), it's disturbing that the Yeoman is stalked, sexually harassed or assaulted on 6 occasions and tied up (albeit by children) on one other. The characterisation starts to look seriously creepy.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Yeah, she's kind of the damsel in distress. Maybe if a female character was the one to guard or capture her, it might have come off as less threatening, or if she hadn't been so lovestruck, we would have thought of those situations in a different light. Or if we'd seen her professional devotion/personal friendship loyalty to Kirk more often, defending him to somebody who criticized him.

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah, she's kind of the damsel in distress. Maybe if a female character was the one to guard or capture her, it might have come off as less threatening, or if she hadn't been so lovestruck, we would have thought of those situations in a different light. Or if we'd seen her professional devotion/personal friendship loyalty to Kirk more often, defending him to somebody who criticized him.

I this is very true. She was axed before she was able to settle into that role. If we'd seen Harlan Ellison's version of Rand we'd be very impressed.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

One of the best examples from around this time is Perry Mason's secretary, Della Street. She's capable and feminine without being silly, nurturing and kind to clients, occasionally gets in trouble, and helps Perry investigate.

 

[Nyotarules]

One of the best examples from around this time is Perry Mason's secretary, Della Street. She's capable and feminine without being silly, nurturing and kind to clients, occasionally gets in trouble, and helps Perry investigate.

And does not even fancy him, proving its possible to work decades next to a male colleague and have no sexual interest or attraction whatsoever. I've been doing it for 17 years lol

 

[Pauln6]

And does not even fancy him, proving its possible to work decades next to a male colleague and have no sexual interest or attraction whatsoever. I've been doing it for 17 years lol

I love Helen Noel but if Rand had featured in Dagger of the Mind it would have been a great way to put the lid back on the attraction - how could they possibly trust their feelings again?

With the possible exception of Spock and McCoy, until the movie era, the relationships between the recurring cast didn't really evolve. TSFS definitely shows their friendship in a new light. It's one if the most exciting things about the movie .

 

[Firebird]

Grace was instrumental in getting the mini skirt look onto the screen. I consider the impact of that to be monumental.

More generally, I'm not a fan of minimising the impact of women in sci fi, as I'm sure is painfully obvious to anyone who reads my forum posts. Just watched an episode of Timeless this morning about the moon landing reminding me of the themes from Hidden Figures. Their contribution may have limited by the sexism of the time but their contribution overall should not be trivialised.

I'm part way through Grace's autobiography and, even though she only appeared in the first half of season one that's still 1/6 of the show's run and she was the female lead.

Having rewatched season one recently as well. It's quite disturbing how often the yeoman character is a victim of sexual assault and how often her repressed desire for Kirk rears it's head (especially if you include Helen Noel which was originally intended to be Rand it totals 7 out of 12 yeoman appearances). I completely believe her detailed account of the sexual assault she suffered because you can see her character being stalked on screen by someone with influence over story points through the plots they included for her. There's even some anecdotal evidence that some of her lines and role were trimmed to keep her more under Kirk's thumb such not letting her sit at the science station like many other fill in characters.

I think Grace and Majel earned their names on that roster.

As an aside, Grace was a talented comedienne and I think if Rand had stayed, she would have naturally led to more little character moments like this one. Hell, Rand was transporter chief in TMP, she could even have been the one to stay behind in TSFS to free up Uhura for the escape.

If you misinterpreted the meaning behind what I was saying to imply a sexist or misogynist bias against Grace or Majel, I most likely did not explain myself adequately.

Grace was the female lead, to be sure, but she was written out of the show at such an early stage - her contribution to the success of the series was far less than Nichelle's or even Majel's. We're not talking about a Hidden Figures situation, where those ladies worked for years and years, never getting or barely getting any credit from their bosses or the media, Grace was on the show for a matter of months, before being assaulted and then getting written off the show. That's not Hidden Figures, that's an entirely different, and appalling story altogether. I'm not minimizing her work on the series, because there is not that much work of Grace's there on screen in the first place, due to her firing.

My question is, are you insinuating that the signature credit at the end of STVI would've been some sort of consolation prize for the damage done to Grace and her career at the hands of that asshole producer in 1966?

 

[Pauln6]

If you misinterpreted the meaning behind what I was saying to imply a sexist or misogynist bias against Grace or Majel, I most likely did not explain myself adequately.

Grace was the female lead, to be sure, but she was written out of the show at such an early stage - her contribution to the success of the series was far less than Nichelle's or even Majel's. We're not talking about a Hidden Figures situation, where those ladies worked for years and years, never getting or barely getting any credit from their bosses or the media, Grace was on the show for a matter of months, before being assaulted and then getting written off the show. That's not Hidden Figures, that's an entirely different, and appalling story altogether. I'm not minimizing her work on the series, because there is not that much work of Grace's there on screen in the first place, due to her firing.

My question is, are you insinuating that the signature credit at the end of STVI would've been some sort of consolation prize for the damage done to Grace and her career at the hands of that asshole producer in 1966?

Nichelle's contribution cannot be measured in terms of screen time, it can be measured in terms of doctors, scientists, engineers, astronauts and politicians.

I'm not suggesting that having their names at the end if the movie would have been a consolation prize, I'm suggesting that they earned it.

The fact that Me Too has kicked off, and the fact that I've watched the evidence being given before the Senate this week, only underscores ongoing injustices that women continue to face.

Admittedly, Me Too wasn't dreamed of at the time of STVI and Grace's autobiography was out later so this is with the view of hindsight. But even at the time of STVI, they had earned it.

 

[Marsden]

Pretty much everyone in STIII who isn't an Enterprise crew member is a dick or incompetent. The security guard was rude to Sulu, "Mr. Adventure" calls Uhura old, Captain Styles is a pompous, overconfident windbag, Captain Esteban is a wimp who can't do anything without quoting regulations or checking with headquarters, and Admiral Morrow is an unimaginative doofus who discounts Vulcan mysticism because he personally doesn't understand it and is totally ignorant that his friend Jim Kirk is about to steal a starship from under his nose. It's an easy shortcut to try and make our heroes look more impressive by default. Rather than making the Enterprise crew truly extraordinary, the filmmakers made everyone around them unimpressive.

This is my biggest complaint about the whole movie. Everyone is an asshat in the future.