Trek II ~ Khan's Wife

[Captain Clark Terrell]

They might have used Rhue's illness in story. I'm trying to decide if a Mcgivers crippled from trying to remove the eel along with a dead son would have been even more powerful and dramatic motivation for Khan. Her death in the final battle would certainly have moved Khan to set off the Genesis Device instead of finding a way to fight on.

An interesting idea, although it comes perilously close to exploitation. Perhaps Bennett and Meyer didn't feel comfortable casting Rhue under the circumstances. It's also possible that she was too ill to participate, so her inclusion would not have been possible regardless of the circumstances.

--Sran

 

[CorporalClegg]

They could've used someone else. No one would notice.

Like they didn't notice Khan's multiracial colleagues turning young, blond and Aryan? Dark-haired offsider Joaquin for blond Joachim?

Or like no one noticed the switch in Saaviks (ST III) and Cochranes ("First Contact")?

Okay. No one who matters would notice.

It's also important to point out that it's never been specifically stated on screen that Khan's "beloved wife" even was McGivers. That line was cut from the film when they couldn't use Rhue, anyway.

Either way, since were likely talking about what would have been a flashback, people would either, not even know who she is, not be able to tell the difference, or not really care.

The number of people this it would've mattered to is way too insignificant to even worry about.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

It's also important to point out that it's never been specifically stated on screen that Khan's "beloved wife" even was McGivers. That line was cut from the film when they couldn't use Rhue, anyway.

That's correct; however, it's hard to imagine who else it could have been. There were other women of child-bearing age in Khan's party, but none were shown to have a romantic interest in him.

--Sran

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The "beloved wife" line wasn't cut. It was in the film.

 

[CorporalClegg]

No the part where Khan says something like "McGivers = beloved wife" was cut.

"Beloved wife" by itself is completely nondescript.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

t's hard to imagine who else it could have been. There were other women of child-bearing age in Khan's party, but none were shown to have a romantic interest in him.

He seemed friendly enough with Kati.

In any event, it was a short show. It's not at all hard to imagine that there were women among Khan's followers that would have had a romantic interest in him, simply because it wasn't shown in the few minutes we saw a couple of them.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

No the part where Khan says something like "McGivers = beloved wife" was cut.

"Beloved wife" by itself is completely nondescript.

Correct. The novelization mentions her by name, but the line in the film is more ambiguous.

--Sran

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

He seemed friendly enough with Kati.

In any event, it was a short show. It's not at all hard to imagine that there were women among Khan's followers that would have had a romantic interest in him, simply because it wasn't shown in the few minutes we saw a couple of them.

That's a good point, Admiral. And as Khan and his followers believed themselves superior to everyone else, it's possible that they disregarded traditional marriage practices. Khan may have had multiple wives or consorts during his exile.

--Sran

 

[Therin of Andor]

Perhaps Bennett and Meyer didn't feel comfortable casting Rhue under the circumstances. It's also possible that she was too ill to participate, so her inclusion would not have been possible regardless of the circumstances.

IIRC, she was playing the role of Daphne DiMera in "Days of Our Lives" around that time, both before and after her need for a wheelchair.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Perhaps Bennett and Meyer didn't feel comfortable casting Rhue under the circumstances. It's also possible that she was too ill to participate, so her inclusion would not have been possible regardless of the circumstances.

IIRC, she was playing the role of Daphne DiMera in "Days of Our Lives" around that time, both before and after her need for a wheelchair.

Interesting. I didn't realize she'd starred in Days of Our Lives.

--Sran

 

[CorporalClegg]

If you think about it, having her in the wheelchair instead of dead works into the story better, especially if they exaggerated how crippled she was.

"I shall leave you as you've left her..." if you will.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

If you think about it, having her in the wheelchair instead of dead works into the story better, especially if they exaggerated how crippled she was.

"I shall leave you as you've left her..." if you will.

It also works well given that Khan crippled the Enterprise, the leading lady in Kirk's life.

--Sran

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yup.

Also, the obvious homage to "The Menagerie."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's a reasonable assumption that most Starfleet officers are somewhat ambitious (they would have to be to qualify for admission to the academy), and higher-ranking officers certainly yield a great deal of power.

The difference is this: Just because Starfleet officers have power, doesn't mean they lust after it. Yet that is exactly what Augments like Khan do. They don't just have power, they don't just want power, they CRAVE power. It's ALL they want. It's what they were, quite literally, designed to want. They can't NOT want it.

Conversely, you can have power but not love it. Starfleet officers have power because, well, they sort of have it by default. It's inherent in the command structure. Everyone in Starfleet has power if they last long enough. But to LOVE power is to care about nothing but oneself, and that of course precludes all considerations of love or compassion - both of which are all about concern for others.

Khan's genetic enhancements make him something of an outlier, but no one is completely without positive emotions.

They can be if they were designed to be. Remember, everything about Augments is genetically engineered and planned.

as Khan and his followers believed themselves superior to everyone else, it's possible that they disregarded traditional marriage practices. Khan may have had multiple wives or consorts during his exile.

Could be, could be. The Augments are like the Nietzscheans from Andromeda, really. In both cases - the Nietzscheans even more explicitly - everything about their lives is dedicated to the love of oneself, the accumulation of power for one's self. Compassion, true caring for others, is literally an alien concept to them (one only has to read Nietzsche himself to realize that). The Nietzscheans, for example, care about family structure and marriage only so far as it ensures the continuation of their genetic line. They don't truly love their partners; they only have them because it makes more Nietzscheans. Same story here, really.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

They can be if they were designed to be. Remember, everything about Augments is genetically engineered and planned.

Khan may have been without compassion, but I don't think he was designed that way, not on purpose. Genetic enhancement was intended to improve the human race. The supermen spawned from it were an accident, Khan included. The scientists responsible realized too late the severity of their mistake. Genetic engineering was eventually outlawed in the Federation to prevent men like Khan from coming into existence.

--Sran

 

[Therin of Andor]

If you think about it, having her in the wheelchair instead of dead works into the story better

Wheelchair on a desert planet. Cruel.

 

[Harvey]

No the part where Khan says something like "McGivers = beloved wife" was cut.

"Beloved wife" by itself is completely nondescript.

That line was shot, though. It wasn't cut until post-production.

 

[scotpens]

Things like compassion and love are incompatible with ambition and power.

History is full of powerful and ambitious people who passionately loved and cared for their spouses or lovers. What about Napoleon and Josephine?

Right now I'm wondering why Khan didn't simply revive his wife using his blood. But then again TWOK is filled with so many plot holes...

I guess I must have missed the scene where it was said that Khan's blood had the magical power to heal the sick and/or raise the dead.

Khan's genetic enhancements make him something of an outlier, but no one is completely without positive emotions.

They can be if they were designed to be. Remember, everything about Augments is genetically engineered and planned.

as Khan and his followers believed themselves superior to everyone else, it's possible that they disregarded traditional marriage practices. Khan may have had multiple wives or consorts during his exile.

Could be, could be. The Augments are like the Nietzscheans from Andromeda, really. In both cases - the Nietzscheans even more explicitly - everything about their lives is dedicated to the love of oneself, the accumulation of power for one's self. Compassion, true caring for others, is literally an alien concept to them (one only has to read Nietzsche himself to realize that). The Nietzscheans, for example, care about family structure and marriage only so far as it ensures the continuation of their genetic line. They don't truly love their partners; they only have them because it makes more Nietzscheans. Same story here, really.

All of which, while certainly plausible, is a retcon. Even calling Khan and his followers "Augments" is a retcon. In "Space Seed," no mention was made of genetic engineering or enhancement; the "supermen" in artificial hibernation aboard the Botany Bay were the product of simple eugenics. All that Augment stuff came way later.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Can't believe so many people think it would've been good to have his wife in the film.

Her death was a huge contributing factor to his thirst for revenge. A lot of that would've been swept away had she popped up waving at her former captain.

 

[E-DUB]

Zero chance the wife was anybody but Lt. McGivers. Otherwise Khan wouldn't have been wearing a starfleet delta as a necklace. "Well, dear. It's a present from an ex-girlfriend."