Treaty of Algeron: important question

[Anwar]

I thought "Pegasus" made it clear that the Treaty of Algeron was signed after the Tomed Incident even if they didn't outright say it.

I mean, wouldn't Kirk and co stealing the Romulan cloak be considered a major violation of the treaty if it was already signed back then? I'd think Kirk's actions would've been a major motivation for the Romulans' pushing the treaty later on.

 

[RAMA]

So, in "The Pegasus" (TNG), Captain Erik Pressman of the U.S.S. Pegasus directly violated the Treaty of Algeron, a treaty signed in good faith by the United Federation of Planets with the Romulan Star Empire (and in which it was agreed upon that the Federation was strictly prohibited from developing cloaking technology), by developing, in conjunction with an unspecified division of Starfleet Intelligence, a "phased" cloaking device, allowing matter to pass through matter while completely invisible.

This led to a mutiny by the crew of the Pegasus, including a younger William T. Riker, and a subsequent cover-up by Starfleet Intelligence.

My question is this: why -- OH WHY, would the Federation, in capitulation, for appeasement, in concession, or otherwise, agree to NOT develop cloaking technology unilaterally, while the Romulan Star Empire was free to do so. Isn't that an unfair advantage? Why would the Federation agree to such a ridiculous provision? What was gained by making such a concession?

Not sure of the fictional rationale..but Roddenberry didn't want the Federation to "sneak" around.

RAMA

 

[Timo]

Or at least he came up with that excuse when pressed, even if the real reason always was that invisible ships don't look good on screen.

I mean, wouldn't Kirk and co stealing the Romulan cloak be considered a major violation of the treaty if it was already signed back then?

I can't see how it could be considered anything but a "major violation", quite regardless of treaties. If (and apparently when) Romulans restrained from a violent response, then it doesn't matter much which specific treaties had been broken: the violation had not carried consequences, so the treaties might just as well be considered null and void. In which case Tomed might have been a polite Romulan reminder on the importance of sticking to the text the Feds had signed back in 2160.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

In stealing the cloaking device, my imoression wasn't that Starfleet wanted to use it, rather they wanted to study it so their sensors cound defeat it.

 

[Peter the Younger]

If we want to get really byzantine about it, the Federation's agreement to give up cloaking research could have actually frightened the Romulans: "Why are they agreeing? Can they render our cloaks useless? What do they know?" Given the Romulan predilection for paranoia, that itself might have been a contributing factor in their isolation.

Admittedly though, I always hoped we would find out there was more to the Romulan isolation period - another enemy on the far side of their empire, a civil war, something like that. Gotta imagine it always drove them nuts, having their capital world so close to the Federation; maybe one regime moved the capital off Romulus for a few decades.

Its a shame the writers never rarely thought in terms of strategic and geopolitical (er, astropolitical?) concerns. There are some interesting stories to be told there.

 

[T'Girl]

Gotta imagine it always drove them nuts, having their capital world so close to the Federation; maybe one regime moved the capital off Romulus for a few decades.

Because of Portugal's alliance with England, Napoleon Bonaparte's troops invaded Portugal. Queen Maria the First move the capital of Portugal from Lisboa to Rio de Janeiro (Brazil). From 1808 through 1821.

 

[Anwar]

Well, to be fair it never drove the Feds nuts that THEIR Capital was so close to the Romulans. The Neutral Zone and Earth are only two hours away from one another.

 

[StarryEyed]

I think it's safe to say that the Federation was confident it would be able to see through any future cloak at the time of the signing. When subsequent research decades later revealed the possibility of phase technology, the higher ups at Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 felt that the Federation simply must develop this technology. Allowing an enemy to have that while you do not was not acceptable so they developed it covertly.

 

[ALF]

Has the Tomed Incident not been elaborated on in the EU?

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Has the Tomed Incident not been elaborated on in the EU?

This. Excellent book.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's entirely possible that Starfleet simply doesn't care about having cloaking technology. They've no real use for it. They're a science and exploration organization, not a military one.

Now, sure, cloaking could have some uses in some exploration areas but we've already seen that they use holography to hide duckblinds and possibly even on-the-ground observers (Who Watches the Watchers, Insurrection) so they're able to do their exploration research with their various technologies to reduce involvment as much as possible without the use of cloaking technology.

Stafleet, simply, has no use or "want" for it.

 

[ALF]

Has the Tomed Incident not been elaborated on in the EU?

This. Excellent book.

Thanks! An Enterprise-B story to boot! looks good.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

It's entirely possible that Starfleet simply doesn't care about having cloaking technology. They've no real use for it. They're a science and exploration organization, not a military one.

Now, sure, cloaking could have some uses in some exploration areas but we've already seen that they use holography to hide duckblinds and possibly even on-the-ground observers (Who Watches the Watchers, Insurrection) so they're able to do their exploration research with their various technologies to reduce involvment as much as possible without the use of cloaking technology.

Stafleet, simply, has no use or "want" for it.

Officially, anyway.

And don't the stealth suits have cloaks in them? That's what I always assumed.

Has the Tomed Incident not been elaborated on in the EU?

This. Excellent book.

Thanks! An Enterprise-B story to boot! looks good.

It's one of the best novels in Trek Lit.

 

[G2309]

It's simplythe best idea they could come up with to explain why the federation doesn't have cloaking tech. itsthe best answer they could have come upwith it doesnt make much sense but neither does not giving starfleet cloaks. Roddenerrys answer that "the federation doesn't believe in sneaking around" was flimsy and shows the naivity of the tng federation.

 

[Anwar]

Gene's explanation goes back to TOS, so it's the TOS Federation that was "naive" by your standards.

 

[Timo]

And don't the stealth suits have cloaks in them? That's what I always assumed.

The ones from ST:INS? They didn't seem to have any invisibility function built into their structures - they ceased to work immediately as Data destroyed the boxes atop the command tower.

Probably those suits were merely "markers" onto which the boxy fixed holoemitters atop the tower painted the invisibility effect from afar. A bit like greenscreen work in television and movies, only with the redness of the suits (or some other quality in them) being the distinct and uniform background onto which an effect can be superimposed (in this case, the image of the surroundings).

The suits might also have been useful in containing any body odors or sudden involuntary noises from the wearers... Or hiding them from thermal view, in case they were used in the presence of people with thermal vision (be it technological or natural).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[G2309]

Gene's explanation goes back to TOS, so it's the TOS Federation that was "naive" by your standards.

Well the idea of cloaking technology was newto them in tos (if you ignore enterprise which is normally a good idea for its first two seasons) So it would have taken them a while to develop it.

And don't the stealth suits have cloaks in them? That's what I always assumed.

The ones from ST:INS? They didn't seem to have any invisibility function built into their structures - they ceased to work immediately as Data destroyed the boxes atop the command tower.

Probably those suits were merely "markers" onto which the boxy fixed holoemitters atop the tower painted the invisibility effect from afar. A bit like greenscreen work in television and movies, only with the redness of the suits (or some other quality in them) being the distinct and uniform background onto which an effect can be superimposed (in this case, the image of the surroundings).

The suits might also have been useful in containing any body odors or sudden involuntary noises from the wearers... Or hiding them from thermal view, in case they were used in the presence of people with thermal vision (be it technological or natural).

Timo Saloniemi

You've sure thought a lot about this. Interesting theory.