Transwarp and Warp 10, what's the different, and which is faster

[johnar]

I shy away from "canon." Protocol, the norm, standard, ballpark.
Even baseball updates the rules from time to time.
LOL

 

[johnar]

My point is, if we take space fantasy too seriously we deprive ourselves of the fun or entertainment.

I was once a hard core fundamentalist Trek canonist jerk ←(meaning me only), and I couldn't keep up with the inconsistencies.

Nomad's phasers came in at "Warp 10"
In the struggle for control of the ship on course to Sharon, Scotty said "Aye, and at warp 10 we're goin' no where plenty fast."
Captain Beverly Picard order her ship to Warp 13.

See?

Hard to keep up with the explanations.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Only if you aren't paying attention. The warp scale chart was re-drawn from TOS to TNG, and obviously in the alternate timeline in "All Good Things...", it was re-drawn again. Try reading the thread.

 

[johnar]

Redrawn by who?

 

[Ithekro]

From the days of Kirk, when the breaking point for the old USS Enterprise was just past Warp Factor 14.1, the scalet was redrawn at some point so that by the days of Picard, Warp 10 was "basically impossible". However in the future, from Picard's point of view, they have seems that can go warp 13 like it is normal, and he doesn't question it. This implies that there was a technological breakthrough that allowed that speed to be possible. Either by breaking through the impossible warp 10, or redrawing the scale so that a warp 13 was possible again (because in all seriousness, who wants to keep giving orders for warp 9.975 all day long, when warp 13 is faster to say)

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Warp 10 somehow allows the ship to exist everywhere at once (not sure how that actually works) but then turns the crew into giant newts that they can be easily treated for apparently.

Transwarp seems to utilise 'corridors' in space, which I look at as something akin to Stargate travel (just without the actual wormholes), and definitely seems to be a safer means of travel.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

From the days of Kirk, when the breaking point for the old USS Enterprise was just past Warp Factor 14.1, the scalet was redrawn at some point so that by the days of Picard, Warp 10 was "basically impossible". However in the future, from Picard's point of view, they have seems that can go warp 13 like it is normal, and he doesn't question it. This implies that there was a technological breakthrough that allowed that speed to be possible. Either by breaking through the impossible warp 10, or redrawing the scale so that a warp 13 was possible again (because in all seriousness, who wants to keep giving orders for warp 9.975 all day long, when warp 13 is faster to say)

The ONLY canon reference to warp 10 being impossible was in Voyager, which was after All Good Things came out. As far as TNG is concerned, the warp scales might as well be exactly the same; the Enterprise-Nil could do warp 8 in a pinch and warp 9 if they were desperate to the point of being suicidal; Enterprise-D can do warp 9 relatively easily and can even sustain it for a good chunk of time.

And "Threshhold" is just one of Tom Paris' short stories he wrote one time when he was bored.

 

[psCargile]

She turned me into a newt.

I got better.

 

[johnar]

From the days of Kirk, when the breaking point for the old USS Enterprise was just past Warp Factor 14.1, the scalet was redrawn at some point so that by the days of Picard, Warp 10 was "basically impossible". However in the future, from Picard's point of view, they have seems that can go warp 13 like it is normal, and he doesn't question it. This implies that there was a technological breakthrough that allowed that speed to be possible. Either by breaking through the impossible warp 10, or redrawing the scale so that a warp 13 was possible again (because in all seriousness, who wants to keep giving orders for warp 9.975 all day long, when warp 13 is faster to say)

Is there an actual show or script that says warp 10 (warp 9.999999 +1) is impossible or occupying the entire universe?
Or was this something dreamed up by a would be canon writer?

 

[johnar]

She turned me into a newt.

I got better.

Dig that crazy Monty Python reference.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is there an actual show or script that says warp 10 (warp 9.999999 +1) is impossible or occupying the entire universe?
Or was this something dreamed up by a would be canon writer?

Threshold.

PARIS: Okay, okay. We'll tell you. We're trying to break the maximum warp barrier.
KIM: Nothing in the universe can go warp ten. It's a theoretical impossibility. In principle, if you were ever to reach warp ten, you'd be travelling at infinite velocity.
NEELIX: Infinite velocity. Got it. So that means very fast.
PARIS: It means that you would occupy every point in the universe simultaneously. In theory, you could go any place in the wink of an eye. Time and distance would have no meaning.
(See Douglas Adams for further details.)
KIM: If Voyager achieved warp ten, we could be home in as long as it takes to push a button.
NEELIX: Wow! And you're working on this?
PARIS: We discovered a new form of dilithium in the asteroid field we surveyed last month. It remains stable at a much higher warp frequency.
KIM: The problem is, every time we simulate crossing the transwarp threshold, the nacelles get torn off the ship.

Transwarp = Warp 10.

Transwarp conduits are gates and tunnels bridging through transwarp space.

Building a conduit takes a while.

Using a pre-existing conduit reduces travel time to almost zero... Sometimes.

The pre-existing conduit in Descent took zero time, but it took Janeway 2 hours to voyage 30 thousand light years in Endgame using a pre-existing conduit attached to the Borg transwarp Hub.

 

[johnar]

Threshold.



Transwarp = Warp 10.

Transwarp conduits are gates and tunnels bridging through transwarp space.

Building a conduit takes a while.

Using a pre-existing conduit reduces travel time to almost zero... Sometimes.

The pre-existing conduit in Descent took zero time, but it took Janeway 2 hours to voyage 30 thousand light years in Endgame using a pre-existing conduit attached to the Borg transwarp Hub.

Thank you for answering my inquiry.

I since stumbled across this review of that episode.

Don't know that I agree with it totally. But here 'tis...

http://www.jammersreviews.com/st-voy/s2/threshold.php

 

[Mytran]

I remember when Jammer was reviewing episode of Enterprise as they were airing - he was not gentle!

 

[RAMA]

I remember when warp was c cubed and transwarp was to the 4th power.

I also miss when the STNG warp scale was briefly considered transwarp as a faster scale.

i think that was all changed by the end of season 1 STNG with a Roddenberry edict of some sort. The memory fades a bit..

 

[KennyB]

I remember when warp was c cubed and transwarp was to the 4th power.

I also miss when the STNG warp scale was briefly considered transwarp as a faster scale.

i think that was all changed by the end of season 1 STNG with a Roddenberry edict of some sort. The memory fades a bit..

Gene did love an edict..........

 

[Guy Gardener]

I saw the cubed light rule in the TOS role playing game made before TNG came out.

Michael Okuda included the warp 10 is impossible asymptote in the TNG tech bible during preproduction, although the asymptote may predate that.

 

[Mytran]

I still like the description in the (really early) original series bible which stated that the Enterprise could fly around 0.79 light years per hour

 

[Ithekro]

I recall one of the last FASA RPG sourcebooks for Star Trek had the TNG era ships as warp speed to the fifth power compared to Kirk's time when it was warp factor cubed. Thus at warp 10 you could literally cross the Milky Way galaxy in a year going at 100,000 times the speed of light. Which would fit the starship that is designated as Galaxy-class. That the ship couldn't quite make that was acceptable. Cruising at around warp 8 would still get the Enterprise-D across the galaxy in a little over three years time.

Poor USS Voyager was stuck with the fastest eco-drives in the galaxy thanks to the "Warp drive damages subspace" lobbyist.

 

[Mytran]

That really would have fit with the name "Galaxy Class" and really would have set a marked difference in exploration between the old Star Trek and the new.

Of course there was also the "Galaxy Class" featured in the TWOK novelisation, which were small, speedy craft capable of exploring nearby galaxies - the USS Excelsior was one such ship I think!

 

[C.E. Evans]

I recall one of the last FASA RPG sourcebooks for Star Trek had the TNG era ships as warp speed to the fifth power compared to Kirk's time when it was warp factor cubed. Thus at warp 10 you could literally cross the Milky Way galaxy in a year going at 100,000 times the speed of light. Which would fit the starship that is designated as Galaxy-class. That the ship couldn't quite make that was acceptable. Cruising at around warp 8 would still get the Enterprise-D across the galaxy in a little over three years time.

That was from FASA's original TNG Officer's Manual. I've used that fifth-power scale in my old fanfics because I found both the TOS and TNG warp scales far too slow for dramatic purposes and not really keeping well at all with onscreen material anyway.

Poor USS Voyager was stuck with the fastest eco-drives in the galaxy thanks to the "Warp drive damages subspace" lobbyist.

VOY probably did more than any other series to establish some kind of consistency with warp speeds. Sure, the Voyager moved at speed-of-plot like every other hero ship, but the series did a pretty good job of keeping the ship well within the Delta Quadrant until the very end, whereas other ships could go from [INSERT NAME HERE] back to Earth within any given episode.