TOS references to past Starfleet events unexplored in canon
- Thread starter wayoung
- Start date
If this thread is meant to tie into the news Fuller released about ST2017 being set ten years before TOS then there are certain things we can likely dismiss.
- The incident on Tarsus IV happened about twenty years before TOS
- A decade before TOS is the Pike era (aboard the Enterprise) so we could still see Robert April, but it wouldn't likely be connected to the Enterprise.
- Garth's victory at Axanar most likely predates Kirk's participation there.
- The introduction of duotronics and the Battle of Donatu 5 are both established as happening twenty-five years before TOS so about fifteen years before the supposed setting for the new series.
None of what we discuss will be truly relevant if the do like all the spinoffs have done and choose to redefine history as they wish.
- The incident on Tarsus IV happened about twenty years before TOS
- A decade before TOS is the Pike era (aboard the Enterprise) so we could still see Robert April, but it wouldn't likely be connected to the Enterprise.
- Garth's victory at Axanar most likely predates Kirk's participation there.
- The introduction of duotronics and the Battle of Donatu 5 are both established as happening twenty-five years before TOS so about fifteen years before the supposed setting for the new series.
None of what we discuss will be truly relevant if the do like all the spinoffs have done and choose to redefine history as they wish.
In theory, Spock's question could refer to how "we", that is, the Federation or Coalition of Planets, defeated the Romulans more than a hundred years ago. But both Garth and Kirk would have been versed in Romulan War tactics, so Spock would achieve nothing with the question. Which is what Kirk actually states out loud, but still.
I guess we can rather safely assume the Romulans became bolder after "Balance of Terror" and ventured out of the RNZ every now and then. After all, this is what happens in "The Practical Joker". We could also postulate they had the Enterprise as a special target, since the ship specifically had humiliated them about three or four times in canon incidents already, probably setting some sort of a record.
"The Practical Joker" itself would appear to represent both a further humiliation and a dedicated attempt at revenge. Although it probably never involved Tau Ceti, which hopefully is distant from the RNZ. But its stardate would nicely predate "Whom Gods Destroy".
Timo Saloniemi
I take the it takes place a decade before statement as an estimate, not that it takes place ten years to the day before wnmhgb. I'd say anything for 5 - 20 years is fair game, and even then the dates we are given for things tend to be characters recollections so even then they can be fudged a bit with breaking canon, and canon can be broke if Ruller and Co want to. Basically, it could centre around any event TOS's recent history so I thought we'd compile a full list - we can debate their likelihood /viability in the thread, but I'm not excluding anything from the original post no matter how unlikely I think it is. For example, I sincerely doubt it has Kirk not marrying the blonde lab technician in it, but I added it anyway
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April/Pike - did they say in The Menagerie or thevTAS episode how long Pike had been in command? I can't recall. I always thought Kirk's long command of the Enterprise as an anonomaly. He was originally promoted out of the ship at the completion of the deep space mission, only went back because he's Kirk and then after TVH his career was ruined, can't be advanced so they kept him on the Enterprise because, we'll, what else are you going to do with him? He seems happy enough and is out of the way.
.April/Pike - did they say in The Menagerie or thevTAS episode how long Pike had been in command? I can't recall. I always thought Kirk's long command of the Enterprise as an anonomaly. He was originally promoted out of the ship at the completion of the deep space mission, only went back because he's Kirk and then after TVH his career was ruined, can't be advanced so they kept him on the Enterprise because, we'll, what else are you going to do with him? He seems happy enough and is out of the way.
If the Federation hadn't figured out a way to defeat the Romulans cloak, which still seems fairly effective in the TOS movies as used by the Klingons, I could see them making it that close to earth before detection. What the Enterprise, on a deep space mission, is doing that close to Earth is another question. I thought even the Federation bases / outposts they visited were on the edge of Federation space, not deep inside it? Beyond the time travel adventures on Earth, that is.
But two of the time travel episodes involved the ship specifically going to Earth or its immediate neighborhood before there was any time travel, accidental or intended. It certainly wasn't stated that Kirk would not have visited Earth (or other "inner" worlds like Vulcan) every now and then.
...Perhaps one of those States of Emergency that were declared a century before "Homefront"? Assuming Starfleet ever told anybody about the incursion, that is.
There was nothing direct there. In "The Menagerie", we get no reason to assume the Pike/Spock association would go farther back than "The Cage" in 2254-56 (depending on whether "The Menagerie" takes place during the first year of the 5YM, as per season, or perhaps the third, as per stardate). And Spock is our only handle to Pike's early career. In "Counter-Clock Incident", April has not been skipper of the hero ship for the past 20 years, so somebody replaced him in that role no later than 2249-50, but there's no telling whether that was Pike, and whether the new skipper came in earlier than 2249-50.
Personally, I'd prefer for there to have been an unknown skipper between April and Pike, with Pike being wet behind the ears in "The Cage". That would match his defeatism in face of a fairly mundane event for a Starfleet starship skipper, his low rank or at least cuff markings suggesting such, and his subsequent fairly long career (as we know Kirk directly succeeds him, and I don't want to postulate an on-off-on-again Enterprise career for Pike, or an early entry for Kirk).
Timo Saloniemi
...Perhaps one of those States of Emergency that were declared a century before "Homefront"? Assuming Starfleet ever told anybody about the incursion, that is.
There was nothing direct there. In "The Menagerie", we get no reason to assume the Pike/Spock association would go farther back than "The Cage" in 2254-56 (depending on whether "The Menagerie" takes place during the first year of the 5YM, as per season, or perhaps the third, as per stardate). And Spock is our only handle to Pike's early career. In "Counter-Clock Incident", April has not been skipper of the hero ship for the past 20 years, so somebody replaced him in that role no later than 2249-50, but there's no telling whether that was Pike, and whether the new skipper came in earlier than 2249-50.
Personally, I'd prefer for there to have been an unknown skipper between April and Pike, with Pike being wet behind the ears in "The Cage". That would match his defeatism in face of a fairly mundane event for a Starfleet starship skipper, his low rank or at least cuff markings suggesting such, and his subsequent fairly long career (as we know Kirk directly succeeds him, and I don't want to postulate an on-off-on-again Enterprise career for Pike, or an early entry for Kirk).
Timo Saloniemi
I don't think we can assume that based on that statement. As is seen in TWOK captains can be promoted from within their own ship - their's no reason to assume served with means "he was my captain for 9 years" and not "we served for 9 years, four years he was my XO, five he was Captain."
If he was Captain thirteen years prior to TOS then is later made Fleet Captain we have no evidence of a demotion in there somewhere. And we have no evidence of Pike (along with Spock) being transferred off-ship and then brought back later. The implication in "The Menagerie" is that Spock served with Pike aboard the Enterprise for nine plus years until Kirk takes over.
Regardless I suspect they will avoid getting into the goings on aboard the Enterprise of that era.
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Ditto. In theory, though, we can devise all sorts of career paths that take Pike out of the Enterprise and onto the path of the Discovery if desired (and if Greenwood's schedules mesh).
For all we know, Lieutenant Pike got to command a 200-crew ferry mission of the NCC-1701 at first, was then promoted to command the frigate Superfluous at Lieutenant Commander rank for a couple of years, moved up to command Outpost 47 at Commander rank for a year, and then returned to the Enterprise for a more prestigious stint at Commander rank, until promoted to (Fleet) Captain and a desk job. As he was the only CO in the Fleet capable of tolerating Spock, the Vulcan tagged along for the whole nine years.
Timo Saloniemi
For all we know, Lieutenant Pike got to command a 200-crew ferry mission of the NCC-1701 at first, was then promoted to command the frigate Superfluous at Lieutenant Commander rank for a couple of years, moved up to command Outpost 47 at Commander rank for a year, and then returned to the Enterprise for a more prestigious stint at Commander rank, until promoted to (Fleet) Captain and a desk job. As he was the only CO in the Fleet capable of tolerating Spock, the Vulcan tagged along for the whole nine years.
Timo Saloniemi
11 years, actually:
I just thought of something that could fit into the right time period. From "The Corbomite Maneuver":
So Kirk was presumably a ship's navigator 11 years before TOS, and possibly even did something notable that made his superiors take notice of him. McCoy's talking like he has firsthand knowledge of it, too. It doesn't exactly jibe with Fuller's statement of “There's an incident, an event, in the history of Starfleet that has been talked about, but never fully explored," but it could open the door for a Kirk cameo appearance, perhaps.
Yeah, but some fans love these treat appearances. Is it too cliche to make someone appear after travelling back in time or an actor play his character`s relative now...
Spock and McCoy were always arguing about logic being better than emotion and vice versa. I've always seen McCoy's comment about Vulcan being conquered as a sarcastic viewpoint of Vulcan "being conquered" by the "logic" of Surak's teachings. Spock's comment in "Immunity Syndrome" about Vulcan never being conquered stands true in the traditional sense.
Will The Klingons be the sinister golden pants with heavy ethnic eyebrows or will they be the turtle headed barbarians? 
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Sounds interesting and would be great to see the original style costumes again rather than the movies and later show versions!
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Ten years before TOS definitely puts us within the Captaincy of Christopher Pike! But will this be our universe or the recreated version of the JJ Abramsverse?
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