TOS purist fans, what do you think of this scene from Star Trek Beyond
- Thread starter valden
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I don't know how the original poster defines the concept of a TOS "purist," but my conception of one is someone for whom nothing that contradicts the third revision of the Star Trek Writer's Guide (Old Testament Star Trek, if you will) counts as "real" Star Trek. By that token, Star Trek V isn't "real" Star Trek because of Sybok's existence as Spock's half-brother. TOS Spock has no siblings, half or otherwise.
Spock-Prime comes from a "New Testament" reality in which Star Trek V occurred and in which Spock has half and foster siblings.
So, for a certain flavor of Trek purist and school of canon-fundamentalism, the inclusion of this image of the cast portrait from Star Trek V in the "Kelvin heresy" could be seen as a loving tribute to actor Leonard Nimoy and to New Testament "Prime Timeline" Trek while leaving Old Testament TOS untouched.
Now, as to the question of "How many Burnhams can dance on the head of a pin?" and "What does God need with a starship?" . . . . the High Church of the Great Bird is silent and the Fontana of Wisdom is, unfortunately, unreachable.
Right now, a voice is singing in my ear, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
Confession: I actually do like a good bit of Star Trek V and don't consider it the travesty of its pop-culture reputation suggests, and Beyond is my favorite Kelvin Timeline film. I also like Discovery and am looking forward to SNW.
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I've seen Beyond twice or so, and have only minimal memory of the plot. Do you remember every diet soda you've had? So can somebody please refresh me on the context of this clip, that I literally don't remember at all?
It looks like Quinto-Spock is mourning the death of Nimoy-Spock. And if you think about it, that makes no sense. They're supposed to be the same individual. So if Q-Spock is alive, then N-Spock is not dead. He just hasn't gotten old yet. Which in real life is a good thing. If we take the JJ-Trek conceit at its word, then everybody in that sentimental photo is alive, and still young to boot. Hooray. But... they aren't.
The conceit is doubly undermined: Q-Spock acts like N-Spock is somebody else. And worse, the stunt casting of Leonard Nimoy in the JJ trilogy obliterates any chance Quinto had to be perceived as the real Spock, even within JJ-Trek. As with The Incredible Hulk (Bixby-Ferrigno), I never once saw them as the same person. If they needed an old Spock (and why, again?), if they simply must, it should have been Quinto in aging makeup. Then the films would have had some internal cohesion and persistence of identity.
It looks like Quinto-Spock is mourning the death of Nimoy-Spock. And if you think about it, that makes no sense. They're supposed to be the same individual. So if Q-Spock is alive, then N-Spock is not dead. He just hasn't gotten old yet. Which in real life is a good thing. If we take the JJ-Trek conceit at its word, then everybody in that sentimental photo is alive, and still young to boot. Hooray. But... they aren't.
The conceit is doubly undermined: Q-Spock acts like N-Spock is somebody else. And worse, the stunt casting of Leonard Nimoy in the JJ trilogy obliterates any chance Quinto had to be perceived as the real Spock, even within JJ-Trek. As with The Incredible Hulk (Bixby-Ferrigno), I never once saw them as the same person. If they needed an old Spock (and why, again?), if they simply must, it should have been Quinto in aging makeup. Then the films would have had some internal cohesion and persistence of identity.
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Well, on one level, Quinto Spock is probably feeling something very few people could: he was dealing with the death of an alternate future self. And, I'm sure, had some kind of relationship with him. There is a connection between the two and even if they simply existed as "mentor/pals" why wouldn't he mourn his passing?
Also, the photo served a dual purpose, the second being a reminder to Quinto Spock that he is part of a larger family and that his presence makes a huge difference to his core group. It was important that he stay. That photo showed him that Prime Spock remained close to them well into their senior years.
Since Nimoy only had a major role in one film and a cameo in the second, Quinto had ample opportunity to carve out his own place. And he did so. Trust me, Zap, the original cast loomed large in my mind whether or not they appeared on screen. Pine in particular had HUGE shoes to fill for me and finally did so in Beyond. It's one of the main reasons I adore this film, flimsy story, hyperactive direction and all. Kirk was done exactly right and I can now see him becoming the man I looked up to as a kid.
Also, the photo served a dual purpose, the second being a reminder to Quinto Spock that he is part of a larger family and that his presence makes a huge difference to his core group. It was important that he stay. That photo showed him that Prime Spock remained close to them well into their senior years.
Since Nimoy only had a major role in one film and a cameo in the second, Quinto had ample opportunity to carve out his own place. And he did so. Trust me, Zap, the original cast loomed large in my mind whether or not they appeared on screen. Pine in particular had HUGE shoes to fill for me and finally did so in Beyond. It's one of the main reasons I adore this film, flimsy story, hyperactive direction and all. Kirk was done exactly right and I can now see him becoming the man I looked up to as a kid.
I did find it rather touching. But in the context of the KelvinVerse movies, part of me was wondering how the older Spock had this photo at all. Did he carry that frame/case thing around with him all the time out of sentiment, and so he happened to have it on his person when he went back in time? Or was the photo stored in the jellyfish ship's data banks?
Kor
Kor
I re-watched parts of the 09 movie and the only way Nimoy Spock could've had that photo is if he had it on him (physically or maybe digitally on a memory card) and Nero didn't take it from him after Spock was captured. The Jellyfish was destroyed and there was no transfer of data from it to the Enterprise or some other crewmember.
I'm not sure why Quinto Spock would see Nimoy Spock as his future self or why he'd try and honor that group dynamic given that events aren't happening the same as they did in Nimoy Spock's timeline. If anything, Nimoy Spock is more like the father to the Kelvin-verse since he doesn't try to go back in time and undo his damage and allowed this new Vulcan-less universe to continue...
I'm not sure why Quinto Spock would see Nimoy Spock as his future self or why he'd try and honor that group dynamic given that events aren't happening the same as they did in Nimoy Spock's timeline. If anything, Nimoy Spock is more like the father to the Kelvin-verse since he doesn't try to go back in time and undo his damage and allowed this new Vulcan-less universe to continue...
I loved it. The Kelvin Timeline visually acknowledged the existence of the Prime with something other than older Spock. I didn't have one qualm about it.
Spock's. His travel bag was on the Jellyfish. Stowed in a overhead compartment.
Spock probably had that picture with him when he got to Romulus in 2367. In case he was going to be there a long time or even the rest of his life he'd have a visual reminder of his old friends that wasn't a hologram so it couldn't be detected by Romulan security scans and was small and compact enough to go unnoticed.
Purity only matters in cocaine and Ivory Soap.
And if you can grind and shred up the latter the former can become a very funny practical joke.
And if you can grind and shred up the latter the former can become a very funny practical joke.
It's pretty good. I wish it was the cast photo from STVI, but it was well done.
It works on a meta-textual level too. If we take off our Star Trek canon hat, this scene works as Quinto grieving over the death of Nimoy in real life. Nimoy had long been one of Quinto’s inspirations (he loved Spock growing up) and furthermore Nimoy had a become a mentor to Quinto over the course of the first two films. Plus Nimoy was important to Abrams, the both of them becoming friends similarly.
It’s beautifully done. It’s supposed to be read as Star Trek itself acknowledging the passing of a literal founding father. The only cast member who’d been involved from the very start.
Nitpicking about where the luggage came from really misses the whole point, but why am I not surprised?
It’s beautifully done. It’s supposed to be read as Star Trek itself acknowledging the passing of a literal founding father. The only cast member who’d been involved from the very start.
Nitpicking about where the luggage came from really misses the whole point, but why am I not surprised?
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