TOS "proto-remaster"

[DraMACtical]

Hey yall!

So. On this website, https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_-_Log_1 , it has been said that the transfers used were spiffed up ones.

I have Logs 1 and 2. I don't know if the transfers used are actually the same as the older VHS transfers done in 1985 or so.
I can send screenshots here if yall want to compare masters.

I also heard that the same "transfers" were used on the 1996 UK VHS 3 episode releases, and the 2007 UK partwork induvidual DVDs. I might get the DVDs, since
I do not have a PAL VCR. But yea, is that "proto-remaster" transfer claims REAL? That's the big question.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Skimming through, it looks like the Japanese edition was a cleaned-up version subsequently used for the UK 3 episode VHS and magazine DVDs only.

All VHS releases prior, including the 2 episode US DVDs appear to have used a non-remastered print

Of course the TOS-R DVD boxsets and Blu rays are arguably the first two 'true' remasters, so you could say this midway Japanese version is a 'proto' remaster with limited clean-up.

 

[DraMACtical]

Yea, well. I still want to see if the 1996 and 2007 releases in the UK cancel out the Japanese LDs.

So you're saying that the PROTO-REMASTERS are actually just cleaned up versions of the older US releases in the 80s or am I wrong?

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I'm not sure on the source material. I believe the BR were from the master prints.

 

[DraMACtical]

I see. The BRs may be a rescan of the 35mm elements, better transferred than the 1999-ish prints. I guess these protomasters may just be cleaned up, color corrected versions of the 1985-ish prints. Got my hopes up a little too much here.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Someone who knows more about it than me, may be able to better answer your question.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Reading the Memory Alpha entry, I would love verification of this statement:

For this release and its two follow-ups, Log 2 and Log 3, use was made of new transfers of the footage. The footage was cleaned up and color corrected, at the time called "digitally mastering", and was picture quality wise the best edition commercially available until the advent of the 2007 remastered DVD version, the earlier DVD versions still making use of the original transfers.

I only have the US laserdiscs and the DVDs are - clearly - much higher quality in picture. Colors, contrast, brightness as all corrected or enhanced. A lot of work was done on them. Are we saying the Japanese Laserdiscs are of that quality? Until I see some evidence, I find this hard to believe.

All VHS releases prior, including the 2 episode US DVDs appear to have used a non-remastered print

Of course the TOS-R DVD boxsets and Blu rays are arguably the first two 'true' remasters, so you could say this midway Japanese version is a 'proto' remaster with limited clean-up. The 2 episode US DVDs and the season sets from the same source did have enough work done on them to be considered a restoration (or "remastering"). Music, picture and sound mix were all enhanced.

TOS-R did remaster for HD with a lot more work done on them, but they also sourced some parts of episodes from SD sources. If you watch the cold open of The Omega Glory, you can see the quality shift in picture quality as the sources changed.

I find the DVDs to be a more accurate representation of the series, even though the sound mix is all over the map (and it has been since the 80's). There are far fewer visual glitches than TOS-R, which have a few of the incorrect scene and music transitions inherent in TOS-R due to the seamless branching for the newer effects. The colors are more realistic and pleasant, feeling closer to what we saw on our TVs versus what was on set. Not to mention the only home video instance of the accurate "created by" credit and episode fonts for The Man Trap and Charlie X.

For fans who like something closer to original Night of Broadcast Star Trek, the DVDs are less of a botch than the blu rays. But the average person will nearly always prefer the blu's.

 

[Tallguy]

Not to mention the only home video instance of the accurate "created by" credit and episode fonts for The Man Trap and Charlie X.

Don't tell me these things. Five minutes ago everything was fine. Now everything is WRONG.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Reading the Memory Alpha entry, I would love verification of this statement:

For this release and its two follow-ups, Log 2 and Log 3, use was made of new transfers of the footage. The footage was cleaned up and color corrected, at the time called "digitally mastering", and was picture quality wise the best edition commercially available until the advent of the 2007 remastered DVD version, the earlier DVD versions still making use of the original transfers.

I only have the US laserdiscs and the DVDs are - clearly - much higher quality in picture. Colors, contrast, brightness as all corrected or enhanced. A lot of work was done on them. Are we saying the Japanese Laserdiscs are of that quality? Until I see some evidence, I find this hard to believe.




TOS-R did remaster for HD with a lot more work done on them, but they also sourced some parts of episodes from SD sources. If you watch the cold open of The Omega Glory, you can see the quality shift in picture quality as the sources changed.

I find the DVDs to be a more accurate representation of the series, even though the sound mix is all over the map (and it has been since the 80's). There are far fewer visual glitches than TOS-R, which have a few of the incorrect scene and music transitions inherent in TOS-R due to the seamless branching for the newer effects. The colors are more realistic and pleasant, feeling closer to what we saw on our TVs versus what was on set. Not to mention the only home video instance of the accurate "created by" credit and episode fonts for The Man Trap and Charlie X.

For fans who like something closer to original Night of Broadcast Star Trek, the DVDs are less of a botch than the blu rays. But the average person will nearly always prefer the blu's.

I didn't know they used different sources for TOS-R. I always assumed Omega Glory (which I also noticed), was just of poorer quality. Interesting.

 

[MANT!]

For fans who like something closer to original Night of Broadcast Star Trek, the DVDs are less of a botch than the blu rays. But the average person will nearly always prefer the blu's.

As an original, first run broadcast fan I do remember something of those days , My dad worked for RCA (attached to NASA) back then, and he rated a Free TV after a year of service..ANY TV they sold. Of course, he opted for the 25" RCA Victorvision TV (The largest one they made at the time) most of the time though we had picture distortion and snow on the screen as all tuning and adjustment was manual. The colors weren't very stable either... hell, the Big E most often came up as white as most TVs had the brightness turned up all the way to fight glare from the lights in the home. Added to the fact that the old vacuum tubes would drift the signal based on their temps, making picture "quality" questionable at best. I'll take the new Blu-Rays on my 70" 4K Samsung with the original music selected on the Blu Rays over the best of what we had back then.

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[Ssosmcin]

As an original, first run broadcast fan I do remember something of those days , My dad worked for RCA (attached to NASA) back then, and he rated a Free TV after a year of service..ANY TV they sold. Of course, he opted for the 25" RCA Victorvision TV (The largest one they made at the time) most of the time though we had picture distortion and snow on the screen as all tuning and adjustment was manual. The colors weren't very stable either... hell, the Big E most often came up as white as most TVs had the brightness turned up all the way to fight glare from the lights in the home. Added to the fact that the old vacuum tubes would drift the signal based on their temps, making picture "quality" questionable at best. I'll take the new Blu-Rays on my 70" 4K Samsung with the original music selected on the Blu Rays over the best of what we had back then.

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Well sure, if I'm given the choice of 1966 era picture quality, I'd opt for what we have today, and as I said it's "good enough" for the very great majority of fans.

I just want it to have the option to represent the original run more closely, much like The Twilight Zone and the newly released I Love Lucy BDs do. Original sound mix option (nope), all the correct opening credits (nope), all the original Paramount logos (nope), and for a real wish list, network bumpers and interstitials (nope) and episode previews where they're supposed to be (nope).

 

[DraMACtical]

Alright guys, so from what I have heard, the Japanese Laserdiscs might probably have the most accurate sound mix via digital audio (US discs, from what I've heard, are analog audio.) Japanese audio on left side, English on right. I'm gonna try to find a suitable time to digitize one of the Season 1 episodes, and figure out the best way to capture digital audio from Laserdisc.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Alright guys, so from what I have heard, the Japanese Laserdiscs might probably have the most accurate sound mix via digital audio (US discs, from what I've heard, are analog audio.) Japanese audio on left side, English on right. I'm gonna try to find a suitable time to digitize one of the Season 1 episodes, and figure out the best way to capture digital audio from Laserdisc.

Keep us all updated!

 

[DraMACtical]

Alright, just got done digitizing the episode "Where No man Has Gone Before" from the LD box. Here's a summary of what the visuals are:

• Theme song is from the second season
• Some Japanese subtitles
• Next Episode trailer at the tail end

And for those who are curious:

g9GWAYW

(i am trying to figure out how to embed images)

 

[DraMACtical]

Oh, and here's a little extra:

mUnq55R

It's comparison shots between the JP LD and the 2004 DVD release. Left is LD, Right is DVD. Which here seems to be the more superior transfer?

 

[Ssosmcin]

The Japanese laserdisc doesn't look any different than the US, honestly. And they put the second season theme on it? I can understand the desire of putting on opening credits with the narration, but not even the first season? That would drive me insane.

And obviously the DVDs are the superior image.

 

[DraMACtical]

But we need to investigate if these exact transfers used on the JP LDs were used in the 1996 VHS and 2007 DVD releases in the UK.

 

[DraMACtical]

The Japanese laserdisc doesn't look any different than the US, honestly. And they put the second season theme on it? I can understand the desire of putting on opening credits with the narration, but not even the first season? That would drive me insane.

And obviously the DVDs are the superior image.

Fun fact: The first season intro is ACTUALLY included in this LD box (the episodes either used the second or third season intro, and look really bad), on the last disc before the next episode trailers, of which all were played back to back.

Also to note that the LD boxes have a neat booklet in it, and the screenshots from the episodes seem to have used raw, grindhouse 16mm transfers!

j187C0e

(more will be added soon)

And I have also heard on Original Trilogy that the JP LD box preserves the original soundtrack to "City On The Edge Of Forever", even if the sleeve says otherwise.

 

[Kamdan]

I wish someone would share more deets on the magazine DVDs utilizing the same transfers as the LaserDiscs. I got a couple at one point but they appeared to me to be just like the pre-remastered DVDs. I have all of the Japanese LaserDisc Logs and the domestic releases of the LaserDiscs. I also have a complete set of the blue VHS release of the series. I kind of want a complete set of the two episode DVD releases but I think I’m covered with the seasons release.

Which here seems to be the more superior transfer?

Obviously, the DVD is superior in quality but I prefer the color timing of the LaserDisc.

 

[DraMACtical]

Yep. I do like the color timing of the JP LDs, as well as their digital mono tracks. The vast majority of VHSs I have are the blue box releases (with a few being the OG prints). Now, we need to figure out this, HOW MUCH do you remember of the transfers used on the 2007 DVDs? Do they have the same color timing of the JP LDs? We need good verification on the statements from Memory Alpha and IF the high end, analog transfers EXIST in some way.