Thanks! I got used to adding tags manually from discussion boards I've used in the past, and hadn't realized that as a newbie I wouldn't be able to edit if I messed one up--I'll just use the toolbox from now on.The formatting should be fixed now.There's a toolbox in the upper left that will let you do effects like bold or italic over a selected body of text. I think you had used a manual tag to add bold and that simply caused the setting to be turned "on" for the rest of the post.
TOS Enterprise Internals
- Thread starter yotsuya
- Start date
I think this is the drawing you were referring to.
If you compare this to the final design, you will notice the intermix/reactor is lower than the split shafts. So that is exactly the system I am using, just applied to the shaft configuration we see in TMP. This is similar to the Phase II design (a vertical shaft with several balls spanning several decks.
Except there are no horizontal shafts because on the Phase II design, this is located directly under the pylon base so at the top it would divide to go to the nacelles (and impulse engine?). I think Probert's sketch is the first to place these in that arrangement (mix chamber/reactor at the base and splitting to the various parts of the ship at the top). And the design changed for TNG and was backwardly applied to the Constellation Class and then the Enterprise B.
And I think of the entire system as the engine. They didn't refer to the reaction chamber as the engine in TOS or in TNG. So I don't think we need to consider it the engine in TMP. The entire shaft system is part of the engine. They tended to refer to the Nacelles and impulse engines as the engines rather than the system that provided the power. Like the Titanic. The steam production system was not the engine, the giant steam driven pistons were the engines. Like the last USS Enterprise, the nuclear reactors were not the engines, the steam turbines were the engines. So considering the shafts part of the larger engine system is absolutely accurate. It was a much more dramatic way to show the power of the ship. We never saw those in TOS, only the cathedral structure (which I call the main energizer) every got very exciting and that was very limited. Usually there was just the sound.
You are quite correct that TNG has the matter and anti-matter streams meeting in the dilithium crystal. That is not even something to look up in a technical manual, it is on screen canon. I do not dispute that at all. In fact I have stated above that I believe that the location of the dilithium crystals in Elaan of Troyius is right above the reaction chamber and the crystals could be used in the same way. Other dilithium crystals are shown in other locations and would be the equivalent of the chamber we see in Star Trek II (which is absent in TMP). That Star Trek II chamber would make no sense to be part of the reaction chamber because it is no where near the shaft, but it would make sense to be part of the power conversion system (something changed since TMP... which was more than a decade earlier).
I have taken all these things into account. If the system requires the matter/anti-matter reaction to happen in a dilithium crystal, then the TOS, Phase II, draft Probert, and final TMP all have a place for that in the system. That matches the system we see in TNG, even if the arrangement of the shaft and pieces change over time. The biggest difference is the deflection crystal in the system. TNG has no such feature and neither does TOS. So this is an added feature in the TMP era. My theory is that it is not totally different, just the crystal part is. The TNG design has a vertical shaft that could be a conduit to take plasma to a power converter and two shafts that go to the nacelles. The NX-01 design also has two shafts leading to the nacelles (the impulse engines are independently powered, though they could siphon power from those two shafts). So that must be a feature in every version including TOS. So That Which Survives has the reactor in the engineering hull, Probert's draft has the same thing, David Kimbles cutaway has it called out the same way, the TNG system has the reactor as the bulge in the middle of the shaft at the engineering deck. Sow when it comes canon and production design references, I am being totally consistent (except for those very hit or miss dialog pieces from TOS that seem different every time it comes up). That Which Survives, Elaan of Troyius, and Mudd's Women are the only ones that seem part of the same system with input from Jefferies. The rest are all dialog and I don't know if he was even consulted.
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You've mentioned three outputs from the TNG warp core a couple of times now which initially confused me - but are you referring to this?
If so, BTS diagrams show it running vertically the entire length of the intermix tube and usually labelled as "secondary matter feed pipe". Here's one such example from the writer's guide:
From what I can tell it's just a feed pipe for the antimatter generator - it's not connected to the core itself at all.
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You've mentioned three outputs from the TNG warp core a couple of times now which initially confused me - but are you referring to this?
If so, BTS diagrams show it running vertically the entire length of the intermix tube and usually labelled as "secondary matter feed pipe". Here's one such example from the writer's guide:
From what I can tell it's just a feed pipe for the antimatter generator - it's not connected to the core itself at all.
In the TNG movies (specifically First Contact) a similar vertical pipe was the coolant. Absent specific dialogue pointing to the E-D's pipe it could be the coolant as well given it's proximity. Or it could be a matter feed pipe to the AM generator
They put the glowing thing right in my face and not once have I noticed the "secondary matter feed pipe". Incredible!
LOL - we would only see it from side angles. It is between the horizontal conduits going to the nacelles so it is always behind the warp core when viewed from the engineering room.
I have supposed that, if there is an engine room in the saucer in TOS, that the crystal that is seen in the equipment there is being used to send energy throughout the ship, but is later changed in the refit to the Impulse Deflection Crystal.
It would have been a very impressive set to see the saucer Engineering room on the refit, since Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise suggested lighting bouncing all over the room as the crystal directs energy. I suppose that the painting of the Phase II engine room shown here would be similar.
Given the sketch above, it can be both deuterium and coolant. Similar to how the Space Shuttle main engines used the hydrogen as both a coolant for the nozzle and as a fuel. So the deuterium acts as a coolant and then is fed into the anti-matter generator to make more anti-matter (though something tells me this makes a circular system has some logical flaws - though it would extend the supply in a pinch, it would be easier to refuel at a starbase).In the TNG movies (specifically First Contact) a similar vertical pipe was the coolant. Absent specific dialogue pointing to the E-D's pipe it could be the coolant as well given it's proximity. Or it could be a matter feed pipe to the AM generator
I honestly think they only shoved it in to fill the gap between the horizontal plasma conduits
True and the camera didn't get round there very often, either!
The TNG tech manual does specify that the antimatter generator is only for emergencies and not very efficient - I think it was 10:1 or something. On the other hand, the deuterium tank is MASSIVE compared to the antimatter tank, so there's plenty of fuel to spare!
This could be why the Star Trek 2009 movie shows Scotty in a water pipe that says "Inert Reactant." That terminology being an obvious contradiction and a joke, I could see the deuterium being transported through the ship as "heavy water." I think the TNG tech manual says that the pump deuterium "slush" from the tanks to the core. It would be "inert" in that it is water and more chemically stable, than say, fluorine, but will release energy when combined with antimatter when sent to the warp core.
It is interesting the the extra shaft has the same connectors between the segments as the TMP warp core. In TNG it seems that the matter comes from above and the antimatter from below to react in the center, and then be channeled to the plasma transfer conduits to the nacelles. There does not seem to be an obvious shaft to send plasma anywhere else on the ship, unless this unknown shaft is it. One could draw plasma out of the conduits for this, I suppose.
Deuterium needs to power the Fusion Reactor / Impulse Drives and you need enough Deuterium for all your Shuttles as well.
Anti-Matter seems to be far more efficiently manufactured locally in a Star System at a industrial facility where you can use Renewables in space like your local Star to power the processing / generation of Anti-Matter from regular matter.
That would have to be one of the largest industries in any Star System.
It'd be the equivalent of manufacturing Synthetic Petroleum on Earth in the late 21st century.
But since it's the 23rd century and beyond, local manufacturing would be critical to space infrastructure.
Economies of scale to manufacture Anti-Deuterium would be critical to power every M/A-M reactor in the system along with guest/ally vessels.
Don't forget that every single traditional Photon Torpedo is powered by Anti-Deuterium & Deuterium.
Which is why I figure traditional Photon Torpedoes will go the way of the DoDoDo's since the energy is better used to power the M/A-M reactor than wasting it as a explosive.
Classic Plasma Torpedoes hit with enough oomph compared to Photon Torpedoes despite the limited range. But those should really be named Plasma Cannon Balls given the way it looks / travels.
Modern Romulan Plasma Torpedoes seem to have some form of Trilithium Isotope in the Warhead to generate the Plasma effect upon Torpedo impact on the target.
If you're going to modernize the Photon Torpedo, the Anti-Matter should be using something other than Anti-Deuterium as the Warhead.
Find another element on the Periodic Table to make the Anti-Matter out of.
That's where I also assumed the power taps where. Those horizontal conduits cover quite a lot of real estate before they reach the nacelles, after all!
All true but it's still a massive fuel tank. And the antimatter generator is stated to be only an emergency system.
Great observations about the antimatter generation facilities that would likely exist in every solar system though!
Now that you mention it, the conduits are sown as black on this diagram, and then there is an area of white ovals as the angle is altered that almost looks like a sideways warp core. The EPS power taps could come from here, like you said.That's where I also assumed the power taps where. Those horizontal conduits cover quite a lot of real estate before they reach the nacelles, after all!
All true but it's still a massive fuel tank. And the antimatter generator is stated to be only an emergency system.
Great observations about the antimatter generation facilities that would likely exist in every solar system though!
It makes me wonder about other ships with similar hulls though, as it seems odd for the conduits to go at angles that change so much.
I always interpreted that as the "matter" part of the "matter/anti-matter reactor," myself. And "inert reactant" actually is a perfectly cromulent term, googling the phrase yields a 50/50 mix of people thinking it was dumb in ST09 and actual scientific papers using it in earnest to refer to the stable component of a potential mixture.
According to NASA, Anti-Matter is the most expensive substance on Earth to manufacture.
We know scientists are working on Room Temperature Solid Anti-Matter in the form of Anti-Lithium.
That definitely could be a possibility but harder to reconcile with the E-E's "plasma coolant" in First Contact which liquefies organics. I'm not sure deuterium would do the same.
That's a great observation about the same TMP segment connectors... Hmmm might need to rethink this.
That's where I also assumed the power taps where. Those horizontal conduits cover quite a lot of real estate before they reach the nacelles, after all!
Makes alot more sense that the port (or starboard) power coupling always went down with a hit. That's alot of power conduits that can get knocked out of alignment
