TOS Enterprise Internals

[yotsuya]

Well, one major question got answered. I decided to get Datin's daughter's book. One of the images was her dad's sketch of the windows on the bottom of the saucer with alignment marks. I used that to position the front windows. The upper windows didn't seem to match any alignment to the bottom windows so I positioned them as the sketch indicated, which is very different from the 2nd pilot/series windows. But from the photos, that looks to be where they were in the first pilot and on the 3 foot model.

The book was a delightful read. A lot shorter than Paul Olsen's book, but in a similar vein. A full career taking credit for work done. What Mr. Datin retained was cool to read about and good to know that a pale portion of it has been archived. It also made sense of a few photos that looked rather odd. The model definitely went through many stages of alteration from the day it was rolled out to when it had the final change for The Trouble with Tribbles. Betwen roll out and The Cage, weatering and additional markings were added to the top of the saucer. then the two curved rectagles and the t shape in front were filled in dark. Then the saucer was lit (top and bottom domes, front center light, and the port and starboard running lights. Roddenberry saw that and wanted more light. Datin kept 4 page request for changes including lights on the inner surface of the nacelles and lighting the 3 foot model - neither of which happened due to budget constraints. In fact a lot of the alterations were made below cost because Datin believed in the project.

His book covers what was done and when and has a lot of detail. He couldn't specify the paint colors (except for the red markings which has a pantone color listed). Also, he had contracted out the original build of the model. But he personally so all the changes they wanted made. He made the 33 inch and installed the mic stand and base for desktop display.

I like the notes that several of the design point came from Datin to help increase the detail of the model. And some of the terminology is quite hilarious compared to how we refer to the parts and pieces today.

And while I could potentially expand my drawings to represent at least 2 more iterations of the model (there isn't really any significant chagnes between the initial series modifications and the final ones), I'm going to stick to the 3 we saw on screen. Though I wonder if some of the gradual changes aren't reflected in some of the FX shots - if only we could see them clearer.

I also have noticed as I'm working on the pilot versions that he Polar lights decal sheet has quite a number of mistakes. The biggest is the very front lower saucer windows I had a question about. There are too many windows and I don't think they are the right spacing.

I've also noticed that nearly all the familiar markings are there, if not at roll out, it was not long later. Too bad AMT never included those in their kit until Round Two took over.

 

[Sgt_G]

I think this video fits into this thread:

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I'd give it a C+ or B- overall because I disagree with some of the technical data presented.

 

[blssdwlf]

I think this video fits into this thread:



I'd give it a C+ or B- overall because I disagree with some of the technical data presented.

An interesting find but the video presentation is a C or D (mostly docked for lazily grabbing AbramsTrek filler video and random out-of-place items like the TNG shuttlepods, etc) and the physical and technical details are mostly wrong. It's not accurate to TOS.

 

[Mytran]

It's an interesting visual presentation and probably most useful to a complete newbie to Trek who wants some idea of the scale of the most prominent ships in the franchise.
Reading the comments it seems that the author is pretty new to Trek himself, which explains why the finished product (while very pretty) is not TOS-accurate

 

[BK613]

I liked the size comparison part, anyway.

 

[publiusr]

That's how I would look at it. The TOS Enterprise probably has quite a few hidden hatches, like for phasers, launchers, escape pods, docking ports, etc.

Panic rooms are big ticket items these days:
https://www.loveproperty.com/gallerylist/81236/the-worlds-most-incredible-panic-rooms

I've seen one where there was a kncok-out panel that looked part of the outer wall's details. No hint from the outside.

 

[yotsuya]

Well, that video gets an A+ for scale a B for deck layout and a D for content. That is one of the potential deck layouts I have looked at. But the internal arrangement shows that they did not watch any Star Trek or really reference anything. They didn't really put much effort into making the inside look like The Enterprise whereas the outside is one of the best CG renderings I've seen. Except for the reflective gold deflector dish and the greenish tint to the nacelle domes.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

early series test shots (white frosted domes),

Could you link an example? I don't think I've heard of these other domes. I only know of the ones from the pilots and the ones from the series.

 

[yotsuya]

Could you link an example? I don't think I've heard of these other domes. I only know of the ones from the pilots and the ones from the series.

Sure...

As opposed to what they looked like later...

This is why in 1991 Ed gave it white frosted domes. Now, the domes didn't change, they were coated with a layer of orange ink.

And compared to the current restoration...

 

[blssdwlf]

Panic rooms are big ticket items these days:
https://www.loveproperty.com/gallerylist/81236/the-worlds-most-incredible-panic-rooms

I've seen one where there was a kncok-out panel that looked part of the outer wall's details. No hint from the outside.

Not just panic rooms but escape pod panels. The forward escape pod panel lines on the DS9 Defiant are practically invisible.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Sure...

As opposed to what they looked like later...

This is why in 1991 Ed gave it white frosted domes. Now, the domes didn't change, they were coated with a layer of orange ink.

And compared to the current restoration...

Interestingly, I not only see the color of the domes you point out, but I also notice the saucer's lower sensor dome is green in one pic.

On an unrelated note, I've always liked the idea that the phasers "really" come from under the dark hatches on the saucer, and they just appear to come from the ring around the sensor dome due to lack of special effects specificity. Thsi owuld line up with what comes in the movies. The light grey or dark grey "hoods" are in the right places compared with the ball turrets on later ships, or the yellow ones would match up with the appearance of the ball turrets in later ships. One thing that the alternate universe movies did was showing hatches open up and phaser turrets come out to fire. This combines the idea of the raised ball turrets of the movies and the smooth hull with the appearance hatches in TOS.

 

[yotsuya]

Interestingly, I not only see the color of the domes you point out, but I also notice the saucer's lower sensor dome is green in one pic.

On an unrelated note, I've always liked the idea that the phasers "really" come from under the dark hatches on the saucer, and they just appear to come from the ring around the sensor dome due to lack of special effects specificity. Thsi owuld line up with what comes in the movies. The light grey or dark grey "hoods" are in the right places compared with the ball turrets on later ships, or the yellow ones would match up with the appearance of the ball turrets in later ships. One thing that the alternate universe movies did was showing hatches open up and phaser turrets come out to fire. This combines the idea of the raised ball turrets of the movies and the smooth hull with the appearance hatches in TOS.

There aren't many dark hatches and they don't really line up with where the phasers are supposed to be (TMOST and the FX shots). I prefer to think they are recessed and just not visible from any distance. I think the 3 bumps around the lower ring are openable hatches. The one in front for photon torpedoes, the other two for probes or emergency beacons.

 

[yotsuya]

The series version is easy. Pretty much a copy of the Petri Blomqvist renders. But as always I'm checking with the model. I've found several corrections. Nothing major, but significant.

I'm nearly complete with the layers for the Pilot versions. For the WNMHGB version it is also pretty easy as there are lots of phots and FX shots. But for The Cage version there is very little. I am doing a hybrid of the 33 inch and 11 foot and the details added to both. One of the first changes to the 11 foot was the addition of running lights. So I have added those. I have left most of the running lights. The port and starboard lights on the bottom of the saucer are directly at 90 degrees for the series, moved back to cover the middle of the 3 lights just aft for the 2nd Pilot, and absent for the 1st Pilot.

 

[Henoch]

The port and starboard lights on the bottom of the saucer are directly at 90 degrees for the series, moved back to cover the middle of the 3 lights just aft for the 2nd Pilot, and absent for the 1st Pilot.

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!"

Love the work you are doing.

This probably belongs in your TOS to TMP thread: On the TOS phaser locations, I maintain the idea that the entire bottom ring is some sort of solid state array capable of emitting two phaser beams (or multiple proximity blast blobs). It could be a predecessor to the TNG phaser strips but maybe too weak to support the higher power phasers generated in TMP, so, back to ball turrets. The bumps on the ring could be associated with photon torpedoes, but instead of hatches, I still think them also solid state emitters; this was back when photon torpedoes were energy based and not a flying, hard-cased black pill. We never saw a probe launcher in TOS; I think it a separate system, perhaps one of the hatches on the bottom of the secondary hull. The TOS movies established that the photon torpedo launchers use black pills and can launch probes/caskets from a new facility built onto the top of the secondary hull. Combining the probe launcher into the torpedo launcher freed up space in the bottom of the secondary hull for more cargo space. YMMV .

 

[yotsuya]

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!"

Love the work you are doing.

This probably belongs in your TOS to TMP thread: On the TOS phaser locations, I maintain the idea that the entire bottom ring is some sort of solid state array capable of emitting two phaser beams (or multiple proximity blast blobs). It could be a predecessor to the TNG phaser strips but maybe too weak to support the higher power phasers generated in TMP, so, back to ball turrets. The bumps on the ring could be associated with photon torpedoes, but instead of hatches, I still think them also solid state emitters; this was back when photon torpedoes were energy based and not a flying, hard-cased black pill. We never saw a probe launcher in TOS; I think it a separate system, perhaps one of the hatches on the bottom of the secondary hull. The TOS movies established that the photon torpedo launchers use black pills and can launch probes/caskets from a new facility built onto the top of the secondary hull. Combining the probe launcher into the torpedo launcher freed up space in the bottom of the secondary hull for more cargo space. YMMV .

Good ideas, but I have several others.

One is that the TOS phasers are actually behind the translucent domes on the saucer and above the hanger. It fits with TOS and In A Mirror Darkly. But I don't see the TOS torpedoes as energy only. The FX for both the TOS and TMP torpedoes is almost the same. While the torpedo is a black tube before launch, when it is launched it is a glowing ball just like TOS (the color is different...)

I just don't know if the TOS phasers should be flush with the hull and almost invisible, behind hatches, or just the normal FJ/TMP style ball that is too small to show up. But I like that the little bump would split open to reveal the torpedo launcher. The only moving part on the TOS 11 foot model was the spinning part of the nacelles which leaves a lot of room for other things to move and open.

I also think any lifeboat hatches are otherwise invisible panels that would blow out if they needed to launch a lifeboat.

I also think that the purpose of the recess on the bottom of the saucer is because most of the sensors on the ship are along the bottom of the ring. There is no room for much of anything in there in the TOS style saucer or the TMP saucer. Even the Excelsior saucer. And the Ent D saucer has a row of sensors around the edge of its saucer. So the design would be a continuation. But the sloping area becomes useful for material stores, such as liquids or raw materials.

 

[Mytran]

I also think that the purpose of the recess on the bottom of the saucer is because most of the sensors on the ship are along the bottom of the ring. There is no room for much of anything in there in the TOS style saucer or the TMP saucer. Even the Excelsior saucer. And the Ent D saucer has a row of sensors around the edge of its saucer. So the design would be a continuation. But the sloping area becomes useful for material stores, such as liquids or raw materials.

When you say the "bottom of the ring" are you referring to the double-deck height area on the outer rim of the saucer?
I've always fancied that the "windows" there are the main sensors (and those arrays of "windows" on the refit) for the exact same reason (precursor to the Ent-D) as you suggested above.

 

[yotsuya]

When you say the "bottom of the ring" are you referring to the double-deck height area on the outer rim of the saucer?
I've always fancied that the "windows" there are the main sensors (and those arrays of "windows" on the refit) for the exact same reason (precursor to the Ent-D) as you suggested above.

Yes, that is the area I am talking about, but I mean heavy duty scientific sensors of varying types embedded and maintained on the lower deck in the ring with a few places where it is used for crew recreation. The TMP rec room, the Gym from Charlie X, the Theater from Conscience of the King, etc.

 

[Mytran]

Yes, that is the area I am talking about, but I mean heavy duty scientific sensors of varying types embedded and maintained on the lower deck in the ring with a few places where it is used for crew recreation. The TMP rec room, the Gym from Charlie X, the Theatre from Conscience of the King, etc.

That's very similar to what I had in mind as well, except that my crew would be able to maintain the rim sensors from the same deck level.
I've always wondered what in-universe structural reason was for the "bulge" on the outer edge (why would the engineers not just make it a continuous deck?) and my head-canon reasoning is that something extra (but essential) was added to the underside of the outer saucer after the rest of it had been designed and built. Maybe structural integrity field generators, shield emitters, crucial sensor machinery or something else entirely, but they would have to have been a vital addition, kept small because the spaceframe was never designed to hold the weight of anything much larger under the original saucer rim, let alone an entire deck.

YMMV of course

 

[yotsuya]

That's very similar to what I had in mind as well, except that my crew would be able to maintain the rim sensors from the same deck level.
I've always wondered what in-universe structural reason was for the "bulge" on the outer edge (why would the engineers not just make it a continuous deck?) and my head-canon reasoning is that something extra (but essential) was added to the underside of the outer saucer after the rest of it had been designed and built. Maybe structural integrity field generators, shield emitters, crucial sensor machinery or something else entirely, but they would have to have been a vital addition, kept small because the spaceframe was never designed to hold the weight of anything much larger under the original saucer rim, let alone an entire deck.

YMMV of course

In my view of things, sometime after the NX and Daedalus classes, they went back to a saucer and it was a single deck, but they started adding sensors along the bottom edge. Jump to TOS and TMP and the sensors were enclosed (protected by the deflector grid) and the undercut was jus a holdover design feature.

It also makes the refit make more sense. They wouldn't want to preserve that space because by moving it out they gain extra space for more sensor equipment. This closeup of the TMP cutaway shows a work area on the lower deck, not crew accomodations.

 

[yotsuya]

Finally getting the Excelsior cross sections done and contemplating the TOS cross section. I'm sticking to Jefferies and Kimble for most things, but there are all sorts of corners to fill in and there is FJ and Drexler, but I'll probably end up reverse engineer TOS versions of whatever I add to the Excelsior and TMP versions.