TOS Enterprise Internals

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by yotsuya, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Koloth TOS

    Koloth TOS Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    Location:
    Trekverse TOS
    In I, Mudd, we also have a view of the ACR, but mainly from the side we don't see in the episodes discussed before.
    [​IMG]
    Photos Courtesy of Trekcore.com
    The entrance (one-wing door) ist considerably smaller than in the other episodes.
    [​IMG]

    Norman is being seen going straight to a control panel at the wall opposite the entrance where usually we would expect the big screen (The Changeling, The Doomsday Machine).
    [​IMG]
    In "By Any Other Name" we see quite the same set (at 5:06) - with minor changes to the wall decoration. This time the room is called "Life support" (at 5:34).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    So this could well be a different room having just similar control desks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2022
    blssdwlf and publiusr like this.
  2. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    They would appear to be different rooms. The hallway in "I, Mudd" appears to lack the corner from "TWTE". The "BAON" room being "Life Support" could suggest rooms with similar layout but different functions.
     
  3. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    It might be worth reading the full article by @feek61 at this link, which covers this and other issues:
    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tosgraphics/viewtopic.php?p=1066#p1066
    The only drawback is that you do need to register to view the site, but at least it's free!

    Regarding the differences about the section of the ACR seen in I Mudd and BAON, here are the article's conclusions about where it was located for those two episodes:
    [​IMG]
    You will see it is in the wild area to the left of Kirk's cabin. This area was also used for the Brig, a dining room, an isolation ward, a viewport room, access to the main reactor and many other single use sets! My guess is that because the ACR didn't play a large part in these two episodes they assembled the bare minimum needed for the scenes, no doubt saving quite a bit of time & money!
    When Norman stands outside the door in I Mudd you can see certain main corridor details which confirm the location, but the single pocket door is also a dead giveaway.
    Here's a larger view of how it likely looked:
    [​IMG]
    The side walls are not consistent in those images but you get the general idea. I tend to favour the second "squarer" layout, since that's how it looks to me in I Mudd but YMMV
     
  4. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Do any episodes other than "I, Mudd" actually show the Auxiliary Control Room connected to that main set? My guess is that there should be another door on the "real" ship, and the two sets being in two different places did not match up perfectly.

    My impression is that the Starnes Expedition child must have entered using the red arrow routes in these diagrams, or else there is no way that he could have "snuck" up on the engineers. That does not really indicate whether the mesh wall moves though, since it is not important to the plot in that case.

    It seems to me like suggesting that the mesh walls can move would open up more questions about the "real" ships layout than it would solve. That is not to say that would not be how it works possibly.
     
  5. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    There was no other true connection to the standard corridor set, but an attempt to fake it was done in And The Children Shall Lead
    [​IMG]

    Spock & Kirk back out of the ACR and the next shot are seen standing in the standard corridor set, in the same arrangement. Adjacent is the door to McCoy's Office (here labelled "Computer Statistics") so the implication might have been that ACR is where the Briefing Room set stands. However, none of this is actually the case.
     
    publiusr and Mres_was_framed! like this.
  6. Koloth TOS

    Koloth TOS Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    Location:
    Trekverse TOS
    Thanks for the link to the tapatalk thread. Excellent thread.
    Was there also a thread for the Desk and Control Panels?
     
  7. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Could be, I've not explored the site all that much.
    The main reason I know about the article is that I helped with some of the proof-checking!
     
  8. yotsuya

    yotsuya Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Because they talk of it as one location and because they used multiple sets for it in multiple locations, I take what I see and combine it together in what I find to be the most logical arrangement. That being the Corridor from The Way To Eden, the main control room set (with the sliding panel to explain why it is sometimes missing and how people get into that back section), with the other side as we see in By Any Other Name and I, Mudd. Any time the camera cuts we could jump section of corridor or more.
     
    publiusr likes this.
  9. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    The set usually called "Emergency Manual Monitor" (which could be rolled away apparently) is shown and then Chekov says he has been "life support" on the Defiant in "The Tholian Web." Is it possible that this "reverse view "of the auxiliary control room you mention here which (apparently may be referred to as a "life support" set), actually WAS built, albeit partially, in the location under the usually location of the emergency manual monitor, between the crew quarters and the engine room?

    This would be the same set location for the room for the Medusan Ambassador, and I think maybe the life support room for "Wink of an Eye" was built there too. The single red door would be consistent with that. Maybe someone had an idea that this was where a "life support" section would be located, based on the layout of the sets, even though that does not necessarily match how the "real" ship would be?
     
  10. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Yes, the "reverse view ACR" set was indeed built in the "wild" space you describe, as per my earlier post. Here's the relevant pic again:
    [​IMG]
    As you said, the single sliding door is a big clue here.

    The life support room from Wink of an Eye was not built here, but was instead a redress of the Briefing Room.
    They don't show the distinctive ceiling/wall struts in that episode, but the blue carpet and extra wide doorway with double pocket doors are unmistakable.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
    Mres_was_framed!, Henoch and blssdwlf like this.
  11. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Good point about this life-support room being the briefing room, which I was not sure about before. I think it is a really interesting touch that the Fabrini medical tapes are on the wall behind Kirk. I suppose it was probably just the re-use of something "random and interesting-looking," but that almost makes too much sense to ignore. Maybe they learned something about life support from them and incorporated it into their ship :)

    Regarding the life-support set which resembles Auxiliary control, to my mind, then, on the "real" ship, the door which onset goes to the "office part" of the quarters, could be the door to the area behind the red grate, and the shot from "The Way to Eden" be considered an error.

    On TNG, the holodeck/cargo bay/shuttlebay area was at first not attached to the corridor, but was later attached. So is there no evidence that TOS eventually did this with Auxiliary Control?

    Sort of off topic, but perhaps relevant to the original poster, did the sets built for Phase II have any auxiliary control or back bridge? By TNG this room was the movie's main bridge, so I would not know where an auxiliary control room would be on that set.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  12. yotsuya

    yotsuya Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    It stinks to be too busy to work on this project.

    More discussion on the interior of the ship would be great. The level of detail I'm putting in my drawing won't include much of anything in the way of identifiable rooms. But there is always room to talk about them.

    Just keep in my that I have very set ideas about my project. So keeping the discussion to YOUR ideas and not trying to convince me to change my project would be a great place to be to discuss the interior of the TOS ship. And the TAS ship if you really want, though my opinion on the relevance of TAS is that it is not worth considering.
     
    publiusr likes this.
  13. yotsuya

    yotsuya Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    One question I have is how many Auxillary Control rooms does the Enterprise have? Franz Joseph put in two, both more like the main bridge than the Aux Control that we see on screen. Should there be an Aux Control in the saucer? In the Engineering Hull? Both? Very serious question that actually could change my drawings (if there is a good reason to only have one).

    If there are two, what episodes show which one? Which one is the Doomsday machine? Which one is The Way to Eden? Are there two hallways? Does this solve some problems with the various set changes?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
  14. Vale

    Vale Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2021
    Location:
    Ireland
    "Discuss things for my entertainment! But I will disagree with anything anybody says!" is certainly an interesting take...
     
  15. Unicron

    Unicron Boss Monster Mod Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Crown of the Moon
    Vale, please don't get personal. Thanks. ;)
     
    yotsuya likes this.
  16. yotsuya

    yotsuya Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Sorry, but everyone has parameters for their project and once set it is hard to change. I appreciate that you don't agree, but stop being snide about it.

    But there is more to discuss about the interior of the TOS ship than my project. So much has come up. Good stuff. Just because I'm not going to use it does not mean it isn't interesting or worth discussing. I'm just tired of arguing about changing my project. It isn't happening. Move on and lets have fun.

    We just had a really great conversation about aux control. I just had another though on it and was bringing it up to continue the conversation. If you want to participate, do so. If all you want to do is change my project parameters because you don't like them, go find another thread to post in. There is plenty of room on this forum for multiple projects with different parameters. That is in line with IDIC.
     
    publiusr and ChallengerHK like this.
  17. Vale

    Vale Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2021
    Location:
    Ireland
    I have never asked you to make any changes to any project. What I have done is disagreed with you in a discussion, just like you're asking people to join in with now, which you then reacted to at extraordinary length as if I were personally and deliberately undermining your life's work. You want me to stop being snide, I want you to stop behaving like a hysterical bully; life's full of disappointments. Don't worry, I'll never engage with you again.

    [​IMG]
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  18. yotsuya

    yotsuya Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    You were telling me I was wrong. Rather than approach it as something for which there can be different opinions and views you tried to tell me I was doing it wrong. No, you did not ask that I make changes, but you were arguing with my parameters. That was not a friendly discussion by any means. Your tone and methods of disagreeing were anything but friendly. I am not a hysterical bully. This is a discussion of my project an the interior of the TOS enterprise. The original post makes that pretty clear. For you to come here and try to bully me into changing what I have established and then call me a bully is quite ridiculous. You really need to chill out and come at this like most of us do. Stop trolling and either post something meaningful or ignore this thread completely.
     
  19. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Franz Joseph's stripped down "mini Bridge" designs were interesting but not the Auxiliary Control we saw on the show (hardly surprising since no set plans were ever released).
    It's certainly possible that there's only one AC room (on Deck 8, as per I, Mudd) as it seems from Is There In Truth No Beauty that the ship can be steered from Main Engineering, albeit not very accurately. However, from a more practical POV an AC room in both the saucer and secondary hull would make sense since it would allow each section to be piloted in the event of separation (or Bridge destruction!) from a dedicated area.

    The two-AC option would also account for the two variations of set that we see. The single pocket door version (I, Mudd) is on Deck 8, in the saucer and mainly serves as a backup navigation system in case the main Bridge is destroyed. The double pocket door version (Changeling, Way To Eden) is the one in the secondary hull. I imagine it to be nestled within the engineering computer room, hence the library computer terminals behind the grate as well as access to other areas beyond (And The Children Shall Lead).
    The version on the USS Constellation had a slightly different corridor outside but was otherwise the same, located just a deck or two above the Engine Room. This is how Scotty and his team were able to climb down (and up) to Engineering in such a short space of time.
     
    Henoch and blssdwlf like this.
  20. Unicron

    Unicron Boss Monster Mod Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Crown of the Moon
    I've been discussing this problem with the other staff, to get extra perspective, and I think you both need to stop sniping at one another. In my own opinion, neither of you are entirely blameless or entirely guilty. If any posters have a concern about threads or posts, then contact me via PM or hit a notification on it. My door is always open.

    I generally try to refrain from having to give out warnings and such, but the personal bickering needs to stop now. Let's get back to discussing ship stuff. Any further sniping/personal arguments by anyone in this thread will be warned.
     
    yotsuya, Richard S. Ta and danellis like this.