Too cerebral

[Phaser Two]

"Get rid of the entire cast" as an excuse for getting rid of Majel? I think NBC simply did not like the casting in general.

No, that isn't what I said. I meant that they used "audiences didn't react well to a female first officer" - while probably true based on the historical record - as an excuse for getting rid of Majel, because they found her acting lacking and weren't keen on casting the producer's mistress in so prominent a role in the first place. In other words, it was a combination of reasons. I didn't opine on the "entire cast" at all - just Majel.

 

[Warped9]

Not liking the idea of a woman as second-in-command flies in the face of what was happening on television at the time where women were being given more prominant roles.

 

[Phaser Two]

Maybe. But audiences weren't necessarily sold. I'm as feminist as they come; I'm not arguing that audiences or NBC were right.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, that isn't what I said. I meant that they used "audiences didn't react well to a female first officer" - while probably true based on the historical record - as an excuse for getting rid of Majel, because they found her acting lacking and weren't keen on casting the producer's mistress in so prominent a role in the first place. In other words, it was a combination of reasons. I didn't opine on the "entire cast" at all - just Majel.

Is there documentation showing NBC saying that? Was the Cage actually shown to a test audience?

 

[Phaser Two]

I'm away from my desk so I don't have full access to my materials and can't give you a link, but The Cage was shown to multiple Los Angeles test audiences, it was not well-received, and Roddenberry said that women did not like how it portrayed women. I've always thought, though, that they might have been reacting to Vina and Yeoman Colt more than Number One.

 

[Warped9]

In all these years this is the first I've heard of "The Cage" being shown to test audiences.

 

[Phaser Two]

Seriously? I thought that was fairly well-known. Anyway, best I can do for a link right now, after 10 seconds of searching:

http://wilsonquarterly.com/stories/star-treks-underappreciated-feminist-history/

 

[Nerys Myk]

Seriously? I thought that was fairly well-known. Anyway, best I can do for a link right now, after 10 seconds of searching:

http://wilsonquarterly.com/stories/star-treks-underappreciated-feminist-history/

All that does is repeat the stories Roddenberry had been circulating for years at cons and in interviews

 

[Phaser Two]

Okay. I think I'm going to bow out of this discussion - I didn't realize that it was some sort of alleged conspiracy theory that The Cage was shown to Los Angeles test audiences (which hardly seems like an outrageous proposition). Anyway, moving on.

 

[Warped9]

This link offers the copy of a letter GR wrote in 1965: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/11/maybe-its-just-catharsis-but-i-think.html

In it he does make reference to two test audience screenings that appear to have had apparently different reactions. GR also appears to take issue with these screenings. He makes no mention of a specific dislike for the character of Number One.

It's not impossible that test viewers took issue with Number One. The character doesn't come across as particulatly engaging or sympathetic, but then she wasn't supposed to be based on how GR originally envisioned the character.

 

[Harvey]

This link offers the copy of a letter GR wrote in 1965: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/11/maybe-its-just-catharsis-but-i-think.html

In it he does make reference to two test audience screenings that appear to have had apparently different reactions. GR also appears to take issue with these screenings. He makes no mention of a specific dislike for the character of Number One.

It's not impossible that test viewers took issue with Number One. The character doesn't come across as particulatly engaging or sympathetic, but then she wasn't supposed to be based on how GR originally envisioned the character.

There are multiple references to test screenings of the first pilot in the UCLA files, though not much is said about the test screenings themselves, at least that I've seen so far.

 

[Kor]

In the short video in which Roddenberry introduces "The Cage," doesn't he refer to test screening(s) where female viewers expressed a "who does she think she is?" reaction to the Number One character? Was he just referring to the in-house viewing at NBC?

Edit: Found it.

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Kor

 

[ZapBrannigan]

In the short video in which Roddenberry introduces "The Cage," doesn't he refer to test screening(s) where female viewers expressed a "who does she think she is?" reaction to the Number One character? Was he just referring to the in-house viewing at NBC?

The trouble is, GR could be something of a fabulist when telling his tales. And he may have felt he needed a story to spare Majel's feelings when the network said "Not her", which for her sake he transformed into "Not a woman."

 

[Kor]

The trouble is, GR could be something of a fabulist when telling his tales. And he may have felt he needed a story to spare Majel's feelings when the network said "Not her", which for her sake he transformed into "Not a woman."

Yes, definitely.

But my reason for posting this was more in reference to the earlier question of "Was the Cage actually shown to a test audience?"

Apparently, the answer is yes. But when Gene R refers to "our test audience" in this short video, who exactly comprised this test audience, and where was the screening? Was it an internal NBC staff review, or was it a test screening to selected members of the public? Who knows?

Kor

 

[suarezguy]

What is the message of Star Trek: First Contact?

Primarily that bitterness and refusal to admit that you may have faults can lead you to irrational, even suicidal decisions and fresh or outside perspectives can be more perceptive than those that are ostensibly expert and enlightened. Picard's storyline is also reflected in Cochrane's, both dealing with how much/whether great, monumental events depend on the decisions of single individuals and how their characters can change depending on their circumstances; both Picard and Cochrane have significant flaws but with help are able to rise above them.