I like this explanation better than any other I've heard.
Tomorrow is Yesterday
- Thread starter Vger23
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Oh, good. I've put this book on my to-be-read list.
"The Naked Time" was certainly conceived as a two-parter. The shooting script is clearly labeled "Part I." Also, they ended up re-shooting the ending of "The Naked Time" in August of 1966 - my assumption being they purged any cliffhanger aspect from the episode to make it stand alone.
FX considerations likely squashed any future attempts at multi-part episodes, beyond "The Menagerie," which had few new opticals in it.
I'm actually kind of meh about this episode or any episode or movie that has the characters in the 20th century. I lived in the 20th century. I watched Star Trek because I wanted to see the future.
This is the only back-to-the-present story I like. Including very definitely ST IV.
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Tenacity, I've often toyed with the idea of rewritten time lines creating two sets of memories for experiencers. It's not necessary to deal with people being beamed into themselves here, though. Self one did not continue existing in the plane originally, having just been beamed out, so self #2 beamed into an empty space.
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Tenacity, I've often toyed with the idea of rewritten time lines creating two sets of memories for experiencers. It's not necessary to deal with people being beamed into themselves here, though. Self one did not continue existing in the plane originally, having just been beamed out, so self #2 beamed into an empty space.
I think you misunderstand. I am not saying "everyone" does this. Far from it. But...there are definitely those who do.
If we accept deck-by-deck artificial gravity, a space navy with the morés of 1966, and all data still stored on diskettes, I have no problem with Treknology being weird by our standards.
I just find the ep unremarkable. No great guest star, moral dilemma, or far-out aliens. Just there.
I just find the ep unremarkable. No great guest star, moral dilemma, or far-out aliens. Just there.
me TOO!
When you're a smart, inquisitive, imaginative small child, being exposed to his first serious-minded science fiction treatment of time travel (as opposed to a magician waving a wand), this episode is a revelation. It's one fascinating issue after another to chew over. Your perspective is very different if you've seen countless time travel stories over decades, and only then view this episode. You're a bit jaded by that point.
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In thinking over what I love about this one, I'm starting to think what distinguishes it is that it's all about the time travel itself. The time travel isn't just a gimmick to get us to some past Earth era for a bit of atmosphere.
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It's not lacking in mood, though. Every first season story has a sort of gravity, maybe a solemnity, a quietness... that draws you in, and makes it more "real" than other TV.
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In thinking over what I love about this one, I'm starting to think what distinguishes it is that it's all about the time travel itself. The time travel isn't just a gimmick to get us to some past Earth era for a bit of atmosphere.
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It's not lacking in mood, though. Every first season story has a sort of gravity, maybe a solemnity, a quietness... that draws you in, and makes it more "real" than other TV.
The diskettes actually make sense, even by today's standards. To wit, certain levels of classification require a chain of custody, which can only be accomplished by carrying a diskette or Padd by hand to the destination. This explains what Lieutenant Picard was doing in his blue uniform on the bridge, handing off a Padd to Commander Riker.
Yeah, there were definitely some major plausibility holes in this one. Warp speed would essentially take you through Earth's solar system in mere minutes. Perhaps only 1 minute from the Sun to the Earth (wild guess, but I don't think it's unreasonable). The time travel bit was hokey... I'd rather it have been something they do while at high warp around the sun, like projecting a tachyon field or something... but super fast travel? I guess they were trying to play with the idea of elapsed time. But that's different from reversing time. Oh well!
Putting that all aside, the beaming into bodies was... kind of odd. I'd expect the people on board the Enterprise to VANISH... because the Enterprise visit was completely erased from the timeline. The "pathway" for Captain Christopher and the security guard being on board the Enterprise would simply no longer exist, and neither would this version of them. But... we can let it slide. This is early Star Trek!
Putting that all aside, the beaming into bodies was... kind of odd. I'd expect the people on board the Enterprise to VANISH... because the Enterprise visit was completely erased from the timeline. The "pathway" for Captain Christopher and the security guard being on board the Enterprise would simply no longer exist, and neither would this version of them. But... we can let it slide. This is early Star Trek!
Well it takes light 8 minutes to get to Earth, so if the time travel was a function of being in a warp field yet being close to the speed of light in order to slow down or speed up relative time, then there was possibly around 8 minutes of in-system travel with warp engines engaged during which they could do the beaming.
Regardless of the ill-thought-out illogic of the concept here, and in other episodes such as "Paradise Syndrome", the sum total of evidence is that high warp close to a star amounts to low speed, sometimes even sublight speed. Which is rather in line with a lot of other scifi where FTL drives don't work well close to X, usually with X equaling a gravity well or a gravity gradient.
Trek didn't go that exact route - Kirk was always "warping out of orbit" and Scotty was exasperated when he wasn't allowed to do warp insystem in "Elaan of Troyius". But essentially we ended up seeing a variant nevertheless.
It then becomes intuitively likely that the immense energies of warp drive must be going somewhere even if they aren't being turned into high speed. Among the weird effects could well be time travel...
Timo Saloniemi
Trek didn't go that exact route - Kirk was always "warping out of orbit" and Scotty was exasperated when he wasn't allowed to do warp insystem in "Elaan of Troyius". But essentially we ended up seeing a variant nevertheless.
It then becomes intuitively likely that the immense energies of warp drive must be going somewhere even if they aren't being turned into high speed. Among the weird effects could well be time travel...
Timo Saloniemi
Does anyone have any thoughts on my earlier comment (see page 1) regarding the amorous computer?
I'd like to know, too. While there are throwaway/filler "B plotlets" of sorts to some episodes, such as Spock's recovery in "A Private Little War" (as opposed to the "two A plots" of Kirok and Spock/McCoy running in parallel in "Paradise Syndrome", say), throwaway comedy as a filler isn't a TOS thing. Comedic relief is reserved for the conclusion.
In terms of in-universe logic, it's very nice for Kirk to have something to take his mind off the time travel situation - why, otherwise he might be able to think straight and concentrate on the essential... And we want a Kirk of reduced competence here, so that the gap between him and the 20th century fellah remains manageable rather than humiliating.
And in terms of "extended in-universe", we could argue that the futuristic technologies of the hero ship would be perfectly capable of sabotaging the USAF records from afar, even if such capacities did not appear realistic at the time of the writing yet; making the computer go unreliable deals with that nicely enough.
Timo Saloniemi
In terms of in-universe logic, it's very nice for Kirk to have something to take his mind off the time travel situation - why, otherwise he might be able to think straight and concentrate on the essential... And we want a Kirk of reduced competence here, so that the gap between him and the 20th century fellah remains manageable rather than humiliating.
And in terms of "extended in-universe", we could argue that the futuristic technologies of the hero ship would be perfectly capable of sabotaging the USAF records from afar, even if such capacities did not appear realistic at the time of the writing yet; making the computer go unreliable deals with that nicely enough.
Timo Saloniemi
But in the end, what changes in history actually occurred?
For the sergeant, nothing, other than a sudden memory that appears from nowhere. He (apparently) continues on his nightly patrol of a section of the base as he's likely done many times before.
For the USAF, a F104 is sent aloft instead of sitting on alert, a couple of tonnes of fuel is burned, and few extra hours of standard maintenace will be required on the fighter.
For Christopher, he get another hour of flight time in his log book he originally wouldn't have. Like the sergant, Christopher suddenly has a memory that appears from nowhere while he's strapped into the fighter's coxpit.
I wasn't speaking of the net change to history. I totally get that it all ended up practically like the Enterprise was never there. That's not what I meant.
What I meant was, by the time they decided to go back to the future, their presence in the past was a matter of history. How did they undo that?
On their way back to the future, first they went back earlier, and then Christopher was beamed into his cockpit before his fighter started getting crushed. The question at that point is, where did the first Enterprise go? If the Enterprise somehow couldn't be in two places at once, both 1) climbing out of Earth's atmosphere as she was doing at the start of the episode and 2) headed back to the future beaming passengers back, then how could she have still appeared on radar long enough for the Air Force to scramble a fighter after her? Somehow, something much more happened than merging the two passengers back into the time stream.
Maybe you were beamed into your own body?
I was going to reply with a snarky "Yes, dear", but it might be taken the wrong way.
And he isn't hungry for his next meal.
That could also handwave why it took the Bird of Prey five minutes to clear the atmosphere while at warp in TVH.
I don't think we need to assume that. The "second ship" would simply intervene moments before the "first ship" felt the need to apply tractor beam - that is, moments before Christopher came close enough to turn a radar blip into a report on visual contact with a UFO. Since the "second ship" dazed Christopher in time, the "first ship" was able to simply keep on climbing, and quickly disappeared from view.
OTOH, whatever sensors the hurt "first ship" had operational would still be focused on the potentially nuke-toting fighter, and would miss the (perhaps deliberately stealthy) "second ship". USAF sensors of course would be totally blind to the "second ship", as we know a prepared Constitution can make herself invisible to radar.
Timo Saloniemi
But then, that alters the history of the "first ship" making it a "third ship" and we may as well call the episode "Primer"!
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