Tom Riker replacing Will Riker

[Ziz]

And you can't really do anything like this, having an actor play a diffierent version of the same character, anywhere but in science fiction, so why not run with it?

Actually, you can. Remember "Dallas"? There was that season where Bobby Ewing (Patrick Duffy) was supposed to be dead and then showed up in the shower at a season cliffhanger. One of the theories floating around for resolving that was the classic "evil twin" switcheroo - same actor playing a new version of the same character.

 

[Cuhl]

the classic "evil twin" switcheroo - same actor playing a new version of the same character.

I had forgotten about evil twins in soap operas, maybe because Tom Riker is a "good twin." Frakes himself, married to a soap opera star, would probably scold me for that.

But now that you mention it, I used to watch Guiding Light, and they used some science fiction staples like time travel and cloning now and then, so I suppose the two genres share some of the same territory.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Interestingly the Wikipedia article about Tom Riker states that he was '[...] originally conceived as a way to allow Frakes to permanently join the Deep Space 9 cast after the conclusion of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Producers thought the idea of Riker joining the DS9 crew intriguing but knew it would be problematic for Riker to hold a rank as high as Commander on that series. It was therefore planned to have Tom Riker join the crew so that Riker could hold a lower rank, possibly assuming the role of Starfleet Security Chief.'

I don't know about the credibility of that, but as Riker is my favorite TNG character that's something I would have loved to see happening!

Interesting. So he would have filled the position Eddington got in the end. Does that mean, Tom would have ended up with the Marquis either way?

 

[caisson2delta]

The Riker twist might have been interesting. I don't know how well I would have liked him on DS9, though. I think, if he were cast as the commander of Voyager, it might have been wonderful. Just the background of this version of him would have fit well with the dilemna of the ship and crew.

 

[Cuhl]

I never heard the idea that Tom Riker would be a regular on DS9. Has that been confirmed anywhere other than Wikipedia?

 

[Red Ranger]

It certainly would've been jarring for Riker to suddenly be a more junior officer, perhaps even taking a back seat to Worf, as it's not all that certain Picard would've made him second officer, given the fact he was eight years behind in terms of starship operations. It would've made more sense to promote Worf to the position of second officer, actually.

Certainly, renewing the romance with Troi in itself would've presented some good storylines, and would have precluded the short-lived Worf-Troi dalliance. They probably would've married and had a child by the end of the series.

And for Data, it would've been a tremendous opportunity for his character as well -- another step in becoming human, learning to manage people rather than systems.

There would have been a different dynamic between Data and Riker. As you may recall, Riker voiced some distrust of Data in the first ep. I can imagine Lt. Riker would've been even more vocal, having to take orders from an artificial man.

For Jonathan Frakes, it would've been an acting challenge for him, something he probably would've welcomed, as Riker's character had stagnated somewhat after The Best of Both Worlds. Frankly, Riker at that point should've spun off into his own show as a full Captain. Always wondered how DSN would've developed with Riker as station commander. They certainly could've written in that Riker's mother was a Prophet who posed as human, then went back to the Celestial Temple when she died.

But is it true that DSN only wanted two TNG characters to move to the show? I know they wanted Ro originally, but it turned out it was first O'Brien, then Worf.

Red Ranger

 

[Hober Mallow]

I never heard the idea that Tom Riker would be a regular on DS9. Has that been confirmed anywhere other than Wikipedia?

Nope.

But is it true that DSN only wanted two TNG characters to move to the show? I know they wanted Ro originally, but it turned out it was first O'Brien, then Worf.

I may not have been totally clear. What I meant was the only characters they ever had in mind to crossover from TNG to DS9 was O'Brien and Ro. This was known in fandom long before the series premiered. There was never any talk of Tom Riker or anyone else.

 

[The Fatman]

For some reason I have a hard time believing the DS9 story myself...but after TNG is when they brought Worf over and were looking for a way to bring the larger TNG audience to DS9, so I guess anything is possible.

 

[Trek Survivor]

The "Frakes possibility of joing DS9" stuff is just Wikipedia garbage. If it had been even a remote possibility, other sources would verify it e.g. Terry's DS9 Companion. It doesn't, nor do any of the extras on DVDs, countless magazine articles, interviews over the years etc.

O'Brien and Ro were the only ones considered for transfer, as some one else has already said.

Coincidentally, I watched "Defiant" again last night. Cool ep. Everytime I see "early" Dukat though, I regret how the series ruined him post-season five.

 

[Kegg]

I think it was a lost opportunity. I like Riker - one of my all-time favourite TNG episodes is "Frame of Mind", which is a Riker episode, and of course he plays a big role in my favourite, "The Measure of a Man." But I really think this could have shaken him and the crew up, and TNG could use a good shake now and then. Much like adding Ro Laren to the show as a guest star, where she spent time headbutting with the cast, being opionated and preparing us for the more diversely drawn cast of DS9.

Also, I read somewhere that Ro joining the Maquis was an effort to make her a possible VOY character - I don't remember where, though, so take that with much salt.

Coincidentally, I watched "Defiant" again last night. Cool ep. Everytime I see "early" Dukat though, I regret how the series ruined him post-season five.

I love Defiant, though I felt Dukat was only ruined post-"Waltz".

Interesting. So he would have filled the position Eddington got in the end. Does that mean, Tom would have ended up with the Marquis either way?

Ironically, Eddington and Tom Riker joined the Maquis for the exact same reason: Writers didn't have anything better to do with them, and the Maquis needed faces anyway. As strong as "The Maquis" two-parter was, Sisko's contrived best friend wasn't a terribly interesting character. Tom Riker had outlived his usefulness when TNG ended, and Eddington was a third wheel the very moment Worf came onboard the station.

But I'd bet had Tom Riker replaced Will or become a DS9 regular he never would have joined the Maquis, unless Frakes then wanted to leave the show and return as a recurring guest-star (hey, it's more plausible than Sela.)

I like how they ended up doing it, but did feel Tom was a wasted avenue for later shows. It did always bother me how quickly he just accepted his fate. I don't think I would change my name so quickly.

Exactly my thoughts. How many of us, faced with this situation, would accept so quickly that they were the lesser "copy". I know John Chrichton wouldn't!

Well, in the episode "My Three Crichtons", the super-brain John Crichton readily accepts he isn't the real deal because of his silly pulsating brain (and his lack of... well, something else.) Tom Riker has been left on a rock for years and years while the other guy went on and lived his life - it's not the same as the S3 Crichton split where they were both the same guy up till a moment ago. So his choice does make sense.

 

[D Man]

For Jonathan Frakes, it would've been an acting challenge for him, something he probably would've welcomed, as Riker's character had stagnated somewhat after The Best of Both Worlds. Frankly, Riker at that point should've spun off into his own show as a full Captain.

I was going to say the exact same thing. After Riker and Troi's wonderful dialogue about Riker being more "seasoned" (I've seen that episode enough times to have Frakes's delivery ingrained in my mind's ear, "Seasoned?? That's a HARibble thing to say to a man!" ) it really seemed like Riker would be going places. Which, of course, he did...for part 2, at least. Then that was all we saw from the New Riker until the very end of Nemesis.

To me, Tom Riker seemed like a way to re-capture Riker's spirit from the first 2 seasons (though especially the first) where he was more action-oriented and hotheaded. Although "Defiant" was a great episode, it's a huge missed opportunity that that's all we ever got from Tom. Killing Will would have been an enormous step to take, erasing his whole 6-season history, but Tom was an intriguing and worthwhile avenue to explore . I would have liked to have seen both survive as they did, but then seen more of Tom, maybe on DS9 more often.

All that aside, the idea of the original Riker as Voyager's captain is pretty fascinating...they eventually went with the "first female captain" thing and I enjoyed Janeway most of the time, but Riker might have been a stronger presence, and it would have been REALLY cool to see him in that situation, cut off from his usual immediate support group consisting mainly of Picard. Luckily that's exactly what they've been doing with the superb Titan novel series, though of course it takes place something like 10 or 15 years after all the more interesting options could have been explored .

 

[Wes-Cutting]

Personally I am glad they didn't kill off Will and replace him with Tom. Yeah that might have been better for the show in the last season but I am thinking more about the books now. I like the way Will has developed post-Nemesis on the Titan and in crossovers with Picard. Feel free to give me crap about including the books but I am just saying that most of the storylines that we are seeing now in them would not really be happening if Will died.

 

[BenRoethig]

I would have done this, only exactly in the way described here. I would have had both Rikers around the last two episodes of season 6 and have Will take command of his own ship (the Farragut perhaps) at the end of Decent Pt. II. He could have been used semi occurring in season 7 and in the movies. By the end of S7, he could have easily gotten a Nebula or Galaxy command. Having him wait for a decade and half for Picard to retire was ludicrous.

 

[Jbarney]

It certainly would've been jarring for Riker to suddenly be a more junior officer, perhaps even taking a back seat to Worf, as it's not all that certain Picard would've made him second officer, given the fact he was eight years behind in terms of starship operations. It would've made more sense to promote Worf to the position of second officer, actually.

Certainly, renewing the romance with Troi in itself would've presented some good storylines, and would have precluded the short-lived Worf-Troi dalliance. They probably would've married and had a child by the end of the series.

And for Data, it would've been a tremendous opportunity for his character as well -- another step in becoming human, learning to manage people rather than systems.

There would have been a different dynamic between Data and Riker. As you may recall, Riker voiced some distrust of Data in the first ep. I can imagine Lt. Riker would've been even more vocal, having to take orders from an artificial man.

For Jonathan Frakes, it would've been an acting challenge for him, something he probably would've welcomed, as Riker's character had stagnated somewhat after The Best of Both Worlds. Frankly, Riker at that point should've spun off into his own show as a full Captain. Always wondered how DSN would've developed with Riker as station commander. They certainly could've written in that Riker's mother was a Prophet who posed as human, then went back to the Celestial Temple when she died.

But is it true that DSN only wanted two TNG characters to move to the show? I know they wanted Ro originally, but it turned out it was first O'Brien, then Worf.

Red Ranger

I have thought about this over the last couple of days and I've kind of explored the path the producers didn't take. I have to admit it could have worked really nicely.

I just keep think of a dead commander Riker after "Second Chances" and a competative Tom Riker trying to establish himself in a universe where Will was probably pretty well known. I know they only would have had the end of the sixth season and the 25 episodes of the seventh season to play with it, but I think it would have been wonderful to have Tom Riker under microscope and compared to Will. For example, remember when Ben Maxwell shook Riker's hand during the 4th season and he said that Riker had done fine work with the Borg? Imagine Tom Riker having to tolerate people mistaking him for Will or comparing him to a dead man for the rest of this life....I'm sure such a story line could have continued into DS9....as it sort of already did with "Defiant".

So mentally just playing with the idea....it would have been cool.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Okay, which unimaginative bigwig nixed this great idea!

Jeri Taylor.

 

[JB2005]

Okay, which unimaginative bigwig nixed this great idea!

Jeri Taylor.

So...many...potential...comments...

 

[I am not Spock]

I would have preferred seeing Tom on DS9 as a regular, than as the one-episode Maquis defector story we actually got.

 

[TenLubak]

I never heard the idea that Tom Riker would be a regular on DS9. Has that been confirmed anywhere other than Wikipedia?

I bought a Tom Riker playmates action hero in a Deep Space Nine box as a kid. It looked like O'Briens black ds9 jumpsuit with a Riker head!