Tom Paris vs Nicholas Locarno

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Locarno only did that when there was no other option.

Besides, if he'd ended up taking any of his mates down with him, he might have been afraid they'd turn evidence against him. He could have had more crimes that (by going down alone) he could cover up.

Paris, OTOH, came clean on his own. He could have lived his entire life without anyone knowing the truth, but he let it out anyway. He did what he thought was right; Locarno only did what he was forced to do.

 

[at Quark's]

As far as I'm concerned Locarno redeemed himself at the end of the episode when he...

...made an impassioned plea for the rest of you. He said that he'd used his influence as squadron leader to convince you to attempt the Kolvoord manoeuvre and then to cover up the truth. He asked to take full responsibility.

Sounds like a solid bloke with a big pair of balls to me. Made a mistake, tried to hide it then when there was nowhere left to hide, took it like a man.

Thank you. Though I did have a vague feeling from memory that he did 'relent' somehow, I couldn't make that more precise. Hence, I did look up the script, but just quickly checked for the 'Locarno' parts, and so overlooked this passage.

That modifies my statement to the effect that he was 'non-redeemed' during the episode, but relented at the end, which does move him closer to 'Paris'.

 

[hux]

^ Locarno only did that when there was no other option.

Except he told Wesley that he would do exactly that if necessary (before he did it).

There was nothing for him to gain by taking sole responsibility at the end. The idea that they would turn evidence against him doesn't add up since there was no more evidence. Locarno took total responsibility to save his pals. They all got away scott free.

WESLEY: He did exactly what he said he would. He protected the team.

 

[Melakon]

Is anyone here over 30 or 40 years old?

I'm 64. Is that a problem?

Can anyone tell me that they didn't do something really stupid as a kid, and that they are really glad their whole life and reputation doesn't depend on that one really dumb thing?

At 12, I once swiped a 15-cent bottle of plastic model paint. Good thing the sheriff never found out. Pretty sure the statute of limitations has expired by now.

 

[Corran Horn]

The "Locarno Non-redeemers" here speak as if human beings don't change and learn from their mistakes. We're talking about a punk kid that F-ed up and tried to cover his own ass. But some people here think that this one incident is representative of this guys whole life.

Is anyone here over 30 or 40 years old? Can anyone tell me that they didn't do something really stupid as a kid, and that they are really glad their whole life and reputation doesn't depend on that one really dumb thing?

I never lied about the circumstances of my involvement in someone's death, no.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It is important to point out that Locarno only came forward after Wesley already did. That's why there was no other option. When Wesley spilled the beans, Locarno HAD to confess; Paris never had to, but did it anyway. If Wesley hadn't done what he did, Locarno would never have taken the blame.

And Robbie McNeill himself - who knows both of his characters better than anyone - actually SAID Locarno is ultimately a nasty piece of work whereas Paris is basically a decent guy. I'd take RDM's word as true on this.

 

[Corran Horn]

They all got away scott free.

Well - Locarno didn't get thrown in prison. He was expelled from the Academy. The rest were held back a year. Given what we learn about Sito in "Lower Decks" they didn't have easy paths and certainly weren't 'scott free' of anything.

 

[hux]

^Exactly... but they still had careers. Specifically because Locarno took full responsibility.

He could have dragged them down with him but he instantly made the decision not to. There was no reason for him to do that other than the fact, it's what he said he would do.

They weren't dragged kicking and screaming into the manoeuvre. He ensured that they had a future (at his own expense).

 

[Corran Horn]

^Exactly... but they still had careers. Specifically because Locarno took full responsibility.

He could have dragged them down with him but he instantly made the decision not to. There was no reason for him to do that other than the fact, it's what he said he would do.

They weren't dragged kicking and screaming into the manoeuvre. He ensured that they had a future (at his own expense).

At that point he might've realized he had driven the team to cover it up and it was his responsibility.

 

[hux]

That would still require a noble act of acceptance on his part.

If he's this nasty piece of work, only out for himself... what's his incentive for helping them?

I take him at his word.

 

[at Quark's]

I never lied about the circumstances of my involvement in someone's death, no.

Neither did I.

Then again, I've never really been in any such situation in which I would have to pay a REALLY significant price (like: give up my career, my love, or face a long prisonment term) for my ideals (of being truthful) for admitting my guilt in someone's death.

So any hypotheticals from my side would be worthless, until I'd actually experienced that situation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If he's this nasty piece of work, only out for himself... what's his incentive for helping them?

Remember what I just said. Locarno only came forward because Wesley made him. If Wesley hadn't had that breakdown on the stand, and confessed everything, Locarno would never have done it. THAT's what Locarno's incentive was. Wesley basically backed him into a corner.

 

[Corran Horn]

Then again, I've never really been in any such situation in which I would have to pay a REALLY significant price (like: give up my career, my love, or face a long prisonment term) for my ideals (of being truthful) for admitting my guilt in someone's death.

We'll never know what would have happened had they been truthful from the beginning.

If the worst thing Locarno got for performing the maneuver AND lying AND taking 100% responsibility was expulsion I think it's safe to assume that if they'd just admitted it up front the punishment might've been lighter.

 

[at Quark's]

Well, suppose he's this egotistical jerk. Wesley confesses. He could have remain stubbornly silent ("F*ck you all! If I go down, you all go down!")

Or he really could have believed in what he preached ("the team is more important than you and me", if I go down and the team cannot be saved as a whole, at least let's try to minimize the damage for the other members).

I'm not saying there's a 1-1 correspondence, but it could be an indication.

 

[hux]

Remember what I just said. Locarno only came forward because Wesley made him. If Wesley hadn't had that breakdown on the stand, and confessed everything, Locarno would never have done it. THAT's what Locarno's incentive was. Wesley basically backed him into a corner.

No, Wesley didn't make him. Wesley put them all into the same predicament. They were all to blame for agreeing to try the Kolvoord manoeuvre. Sure, Locarno didn't want to come forward and accept that... but once that weasel-faced streak of piss Wesley did come forward (screwing the whole team in the process), Locarno then instantly took responsibility for the others (even though they all agreed to do it). He simply didn't have to do that.

That was his choice. He deserves some credit for it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Kor]

What if they had successfully pulled of the maneuver?

It was banned, so wouldn't they all have gotten into big trouble?

Kor

 

[Melakon]

Paris had the more unfortunate fate of being banished to *gasp* New Zealand.

 

[at Quark's]

What if they had successfully pulled of the maneuver?

It was banned, so wouldn't they all have gotten into big trouble?

Kor

I always felt that to be an error in the plot, too (even if understandable for dramatic reasons).

(But as a side thought, I think such a ban would be typical for TNG starfleet. TOS starfleet probably would have said: it's an extremely dangerous manoeuvre. If you can pull it off, fine, but at your own risk. If you succeed, the rewards are yours, if you fail the consequences are yours. We won't patronise you and ban it.)

(edit: I know the script says it was banned due to an accident "over a century ago", just trying to convey this 'clean' feeling I have about TNG starfleet)

 

[Terok Nor]

Locarno was damaged goods.

Why though? Yeah, he lied and covered it up. So did Wesley. So did Jaxa. So did the other one whose name I forget. What did Locarno do that makes him worse than Paris?

Locarno was their superior and held influence over them. Both Wesley and Sito Jaxa were ashamed and felt guilty about the coverup. Locarno came across as more ruthless to me. I doubt he would ever have come forward with the truth or repented based on his actions in The First Duty but we'll never know.

The path to Tom's redemption should have been tougher and longer but we all know Voyager didn't really do character development so he was harmless good guy Tom in about 3 episodes.

 

[Jeffe525]

The path to Tom's redemption should have been tougher and longer but we all know Voyager didn't really do character development so he was harmless good guy Tom in about 3 episodes.

First, that show had a lot of character development.

Second, he wasn't "Good guy Tom," he was "2nd Chance Tom" trying to make the best of it. Just like Locarno would've been.

Of course Locarno was redeemable. If it was him saving the day on Voyager instead of Paris, no one here would be so unforgiving.