Tom Paris vs Nicholas Locarno

[Melakon]

I wonder....Why did they want to bring back that particular character ?

They didn't want Locarno as much as they wanted Robert Duncan McNeill back. They wanted him so much, they rescheduled an audition for him when he told them he was unwilling to put the actors and crew of a play he was already in out of work, due to the date of the audition. He said it was a hard decision for him to make. He was only making about $300 a week in the play, and had a family to feed. They waited until the run of his play was over.

 

[stardream]

I wonder....Why did they want to bring back that particular character ?

They didn't want Locarno as much as they wanted Robert Duncan McNeill back. They wanted him so much, they rescheduled an audition for him when he told them he was unwilling to put the actors and crew of a play he was already in out of work, due to the date of the audition. He said it was a hard decision for him to make. He was only making about $300 a week in the play, and had a family to feed. They waited until the run of his play was over.

So that's the story. I'd heard all kinds of things about his audition.

 

[Melakon]

So that's the story. I'd heard all kinds of things about his audition.

McNeill tells the story in this book. I have one of the original editions, which only goes up to Jeri Ryan coming aboard.
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/A_Vision_of_the_Future_-_Star_Trek%3A_Voyager

That story alone shows his dedication and professionalism, so everybody won.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can't believe Tuvok was a human who tried to steal the Enterprise then died but was then later reanimated and genetically altered to become a Vulcan.

Wait, what are we talking about?

Must have been before he worked as a Klingon mercenary.

 

[Melakon]

Must have been before he worked as a Klingon mercenary.

Was he the one who got clobbered with a saddle?

 

[Jedman67]

I recall reading that they wanted someone "like" McNeil/Locarno, not that they wanted to bring back the same character with a different name.

 

[fireproof78]

Wait...I thought Tuvok was a Changling, because he served on the ENT-B and might be responsible for the Nexus...

As for Tom Paris, all the stuff that I have heard and/or read is that it was a matter of royalties. The rest is just fluff.

 

[Terok Nor]

It wasn't until Season 2 or 3 of Voyager that I discovered Nick Locarno and Tom Paris were different characters. I'd only seen The First Duty once at that point and didn't remember the character's name. I did remember everything else about him and it all gelled with the Tom Paris character so I just assumed they were the same person. My first reaction was to wonder why the name change was necessary since, to me, it was the same character. Over time and seeing First Duty multiple times I can now see that Locarno was an irredeemable jackass whereas Paris was just a wreckless misguided idiot. Locarno might have changed if he'd been given the chance Paris got but I think he was more self serving than Paris ever was.

I don't know what the official reason for the change of name was (beyond what's been speculated in this thread) but it was the right decision in my opinion. Locarno was damaged goods.

 

[borgboy]

The novels establish that Taurik and Vorik are twins.

 

[Tosk]

Locarno was damaged goods.

Why though? Yeah, he lied and covered it up. So did Wesley. So did Jaxa. So did the other one whose name I forget. What did Locarno do that makes him worse than Paris?

 

[Corran Horn]

What? Ok, try that one again, except replace "Paris," "Maquis," and "Starfleet" with "Abdullah," "Taliban," and "U.S. Army." You see where the problem is here. Terrorists are never excused, whereas liars, save-asses, and adolescent idiots are given redemption all the time.

What? Terrorist is subjective. Major Kira was a terrorist. Is she comparable to a member of the Taliban?

From the series Paris was captured on his first mission - it's not like he was running around killing people.

 

[Lynx]

^ I'm not aware of any crossover between the L&O and Cold Case universes..

I have to admit that I messed this one up. Scotty Valens showed up in CSI NY, not Law and Order SVU. It was in the episode "Cold Reveal" from 2007.

Anyway, I still think that he should have been Scotty Valens in Law and Order SVU.

borgboy wrote:

The novels establish that Taurik and Vorik are twins.

I didn't know that either. Thanks for info.

Even if I have to admit that I hate when they ruin my splendid explanations and theories.

 

[stardream]

Locarno was damaged goods.

Why though? Yeah, he lied and covered it up. So did Wesley. So did Jaxa. So did the other one whose name I forget. What did Locarno do that makes him worse than Paris?

I believe the idea is that Larcarno pressured his subordinates to participate in a cover up. Paris covered up his pilot error on his own and involved no one else.

 

[Corran Horn]

Locarno was damaged goods.

Why though? Yeah, he lied and covered it up. So did Wesley. So did Jaxa. So did the other one whose name I forget. What did Locarno do that makes him worse than Paris?

I believe the idea is that Larcarno pressured his subordinates to participate in a cover up. Paris covered up his pilot error on his own and involved no one else.

Absolutely - he was in a leadership role and pressured the team to lie.

He only did the noble thing when their actions were already exposed.

 

[Lynx]

What? Ok, try that one again, except replace "Paris," "Maquis," and "Starfleet" with "Abdullah," "Taliban," and "U.S. Army." You see where the problem is here. Terrorists are never excused, whereas liars, save-asses, and adolescent idiots are given redemption all the time.

What? Terrorist is subjective. Major Kira was a terrorist. Is she comparable to a member of the Taliban?

From the series Paris was captured on his first mission - it's not like he was running around killing people.

There is a difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.

No doubt that the Talibans, Al Qaeda and all of those are terrorists. They kill civilians and innocent people.

But in WWII we had the Polish Armia Krajowa (Home Army) which I regard as freedom fighters. They did strike at the German army, not at civilians.

However we also had the smaller group Armia Ludowa (People's Army) which was Communist and ruled from Moscow. They delibartely attacked German civilian targets in order to make the Germans take revenge on the Polish people. Armia Ludowa meant that such German atrocities directed at Polish civilians would make more Poles join their organization, just to get revenge at all Germans. They were more a terrorist group.

I don't consider the Maquis a terrorist group because they were fighting against a very brutal opressor.

 

[Melakon]

freedom fighters

I really hate that term. It wreaks of Reagan-era propaganda. Resistance seems less provocative.

Not criticizing you for using it, I just don't like the phrase itself.

 

[at Quark's]

Locarno as portrayed within the TNG ep: someone who didn't want to admit the truth because he believed he could come out scrapefree, to the very end. He only (and even then implicitly) admitted when there was no other option left.

Paris: someone who started very ambiguously (yeah, I admitted my fault in the true spirit of Christmas, but perhaps that was a stupid thing to do! ), and who became a 'good guy' in the run of the series.

So, yeah, they very well could be the same guy, but given the on-screen characterisation, Paris gets redeemed during VOY, whereas it's the question whether Locarno will ever be.

It's interesting though how Locarno uses 'ideals' to justify his own end: 'team spirit' and 'sacrifice' because 'the team is more important than you and me so you should SHUT UP when they inquire!'. To me, it's one of the core characteristics of "evil": 'kidnapping' the use of 'good' sentiments for its own cause. (To make a somewhat tired comparison: if the Germans wouldn't have been as punctual, industrious, and law-abiding as they were, Hitler never would have gotten as far as he did.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I'm not aware of any crossover between the L&O and Cold Case universes..

I have to admit that I messed this one up. Scotty Valens showed up in CSI NY, not Law and Order SVU. It was in the episode "Cold Reveal" from 2007.

Anyway, I still think that he should have been Scotty Valens in Law and Order SVU.

Those were on different networks, weren't they? NBC wouldn't want to promote a rival network's show.

As for Locarno, non-canon though this may be I do find it fitting what eventually happens to him.

[spoiler="Revenant" from Seven Deadly Sins]He is assimilated by the Borg.[/spoiler]

 

[Jeffe525]

The "Locarno Non-redeemers" here speak as if human beings don't change and learn from their mistakes. We're talking about a punk kid that F-ed up and tried to cover his own ass. But some people here think that this one incident is representative of this guys whole life.

Is anyone here over 30 or 40 years old? Can anyone tell me that they didn't do something really stupid as a kid, and that they are really glad their whole life and reputation doesn't depend on that one really dumb thing?

 

[hux]

As far as I'm concerned Locarno redeemed himself at the end of the episode when he...

...made an impassioned plea for the rest of you. He said that he'd used his influence as squadron leader to convince you to attempt the Kolvoord manoeuvre and then to cover up the truth. He asked to take full responsibility.

Sounds like a solid bloke with a big pair of balls to me. Made a mistake, tried to hide it then when there was nowhere left to hide, took it like a man.