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TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"...

Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

I was also thinking of this. Mainly because in First Contact Admiral Hayes briefs Picard and it is reported his ship is later destroyed yet he is the Admiral to send Captain Voyager the long messages in the 5th, 6th and 7th seasons???


Can someone explain that 1 to me?
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

That one is not so much trouble. His ship may have been destroyed but the admiral likely got out in an escape pod or was beamed aboard another ship. He could have been injured, leading to Captain Picard taking command of the fleet.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Gkar said:
I was also thinking of this. Mainly because in First Contact Admiral Hayes briefs Picard and it is reported his ship is later destroyed yet he is the Admiral to send Captain Voyager the long messages in the 5th, 6th and 7th seasons???


Can someone explain that 1 to me?
His ship was destroyed but he could have been in an escape pod or beam out as the ship exploded. There are a few possiblities.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Jolly Jack Bauer said:
Or Admiral Hayes had a twin brother.

"Hi, I'm Admiral Hayes, and this is my twin brother, Admiral Hayes, and my other brother, Admiral Hayes."
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Or it could have been Andorian Admiral Haes, or Admiral Hays, or an Admiral in a Haze..... ;)
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

He Sees-u said:
Or it could have been Andorian Admiral Haes, or Admiral Hays, or an Admiral in a Haze..... ;)
``Dude ... did you ever look at your photon torpedoes? I mean, really look at your photon torpedoes? ... Deep, man. Deeeeeep.''
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Isn't there anyway to set INS inbetween season 6? Its not at all possible?

Isn't there any theory that can work, for it?
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Emperor-Tiberius said:
Isn't there anyway to set INS inbetween season 6? Its not at all possible?

Isn't there any theory that can work, for it?
The hard data we have for the timing of Insurrection is that one of the face-stretchers says that in the past 24 months the Federation has been challenged by the Borg, the Cardassians, and the Dominion. Assuming that the Borg challenge mentioned is that of First Contact, then Insurrection needs to be within about 24 months of stardate 50893.5.

Based on Memory Alpha data, stardate 50893.5 was sometime between the episodes ``Children of Time'' and ``Empok Nor''. Assuming that 12 months is one year and that one year is 1000 stardates, then every episode through to ``The Dogs of War'' comes in before the stardate 52893.5 cutoff. (If Memory Alpha is to be believed there's no stardates given in ``What You Leave Behind''.)

So, any episode in which there can plausibly be ``Dominion negotiations'' requiring large swaths of the Diplomatic Corps's attention is acceptable for when Insurrection takes place.

The mention of the ``past 24 months'' suggests that it's some time more than a year since the Borg attack, and probably closer to two years than to one (or to three); the one-year mark to First Contact appears to occur sometime between ``Valiant'' and ``The Sound of Her Voice''.

So those are the factors which argue for a setting sometime in the seventh season for Insurrection. Putting it in the sixth season requires explaining why face-stretch guy was rounding up to 24 months instead of 12; putting it long after ``What You Leave Behind'' requires explaining why he said 24 months instead of 30.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

So there is no way to fit it into season 6?

Because really, it doesn't fit at all with 7. With Worf facing Jadzia's death and all... Then again, it doesn't exactly fit with season 6 either, but I thought there might've been a way.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

Emperor-Tiberius said:
So there is no way to fit it into season 6?
There's no explicit reason that it can't. The only basis we have to go on is face-stretcher's line about the challenges the Federation's faced in the past 24 months.

(We could suppose face-stretcher just remembered wrong, although it's poor form in this game to make that supposition except as the last possible resort.)

It is literally true that if they faced the Borg in the past 12 months then they have faced it within the past 24 months, but it's an odd construction to use, and it points to First Contact being closer to two years than to one year in the past. That's not iron-clad, though; and, barring a deductive breakthrough, we're not going to get iron-clad dating for it.
 
I think there was an episode in the 4th or 5th season where Sisko says something to the tune of "with the Klingon war and the recent Borg attack, Starfleet is spread pretty thin." So I guess FC would be placed around then. Give or take a couple years for Generations and Ins.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

INS was set in 2375 (its annoying that there's no stardate), so that'd be concurrent with DS9's season 7.

'Defiant' (48467.3) was set before GEN (48632.4).

And Sisko's line about the Borg attack in season 5 was in an episode set before the stardate given in FC, 50893.5. A mistake.
 
I think FC works fine with Season 5, where that line, btw, comes from, Natural.

I just don't see INS fitting with season 7, story-wise.


OK, I don't see INS fitting with DS9's story at that point, at all, but I had to ask..
 
If only Terry Farrel stayed on DS9, we probably could have seen her in Insurrection. :(
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

cwalrus2 said:
If only Terry Farrel stayed on DS9, we probably could have seen her in Insurrection. :(

Even if she did stay, not very likely.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

The negotiation line in Insurrection could be reconciled by assuming that even though the war was not over the Dominion and Federation sides were in talks to try and minimize the conflict. Or maybe negotiate the exchange of prisoners or territories? It seems like this could happen while the war was hot. Of course, sending a Sovereign class ship and one of the commanders of the Defiant into the Brier Patch for a superfluous mission during a war still seems odd.

However, the stardate discrepancies between DS9 and First Contact are more annoying and look to be irreconcilable.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

I'm firmly in the camp of Insurrection taking place post DS9. The idea of the federation being in negotiations with the Dominion at any other point that at the end of the war just makes no sense to me.
 
Re: TNG's "Generations", "First Contact", and "Insurrection"

I'm firmly in the camp of Insurrection taking place post DS9. The idea of the federation being in negotiations with the Dominion at any other point that at the end of the war just makes no sense to me.
I've been in the post-DS9 camp for about seven years now. :)

Given Weyoun's war aims in the seventh season -- the annihilation of Earth and a human genocide -- the idea of the Federation engaging in any sort of negotiations with the Dominion is impossible to credit. That would be like cows negotiating at a slaughterhouse; they can negotiate, but at the end of the day the slaughterhouse is still going to want the cows dead.
 
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