Well, why not, what?
TNG Rewatch: 7x14 - "Sub Rosa"
- Thread starter Trekker4747
- Start date
You think I should do a full write-up for each episode?
Ehhhh.... I *might* but, for me at least, the snark can only work so-much when the episode gives me something to work with. I may tackle it again with some of the weaker episodes left in the series and, hell, may even do it for AGT just as a last-hurrah. But, for example. the next episode (Lower Decks) doesn't lend itself to much humor and sarcasm so would probably pose more of a challenge. Though I could maybe pull it off. FWIW, I literally wrote the Suba Rosa recap as I watched the episode once, pausing it as my next block of recap struck me and needed to be done. Probably took me two hours, three tops. That's without a heavy editing process beyond going back through it and fixing any typos, spelling errors jumbling of words and a couple sentences that struck me as being run-ons. I'm sure there's a lot more editing I could have done to it.
Be interested to see how others feel about the notion. I liked doing it, but mostly because Sub Rosa is an episode I just "love to hate" so much because of the utter absurdity of it.
Ehhhh.... I *might* but, for me at least, the snark can only work so-much when the episode gives me something to work with. I may tackle it again with some of the weaker episodes left in the series and, hell, may even do it for AGT just as a last-hurrah. But, for example. the next episode (Lower Decks) doesn't lend itself to much humor and sarcasm so would probably pose more of a challenge. Though I could maybe pull it off. FWIW, I literally wrote the Suba Rosa recap as I watched the episode once, pausing it as my next block of recap struck me and needed to be done. Probably took me two hours, three tops. That's without a heavy editing process beyond going back through it and fixing any typos, spelling errors jumbling of words and a couple sentences that struck me as being run-ons. I'm sure there's a lot more editing I could have done to it.
Be interested to see how others feel about the notion. I liked doing it, but mostly because Sub Rosa is an episode I just "love to hate" so much because of the utter absurdity of it.
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It is funny how human beings have their brain stimulated more by negatives rather than positives in general. People tire quickly of "best of" lists, but put up a good "worst list", people flock to it.
I always liked this review the best:
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t266.php
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t266.php
Meh. It's not that bad. The only offensive thing really is the stereotypes, and that's par for the course in American television even today. The 90s was the era of celtic stereotypes in sci-fi, (voyager did it, TNG does it....even Earth: Final Conflict does it....Let's do it...Let's have some Craic) and probably cones out of that odd cultural dissonance that sometimes still pops up in the U.S.
I don't go with the whole 'rape' angle on crusher, as at no point was there ever shown to be a mind control or power aspect beyond endorphin addiction (which would be natural I suppose) or lust.
He lied about who he was, and gets violent towards her friends, which makes him a gothic novel stereotype, but Ronin (not Ronan Keating, who used insidious mind control on throngs of middle aged women and teenage girls in a much different way.....) was never able to control the Howard women (Beverlys follows the path rather literally worn by her grandmother already by becoming a doctor, though yes...squick at jumping her nans Boytoy.) and beverly acts of her own volition throughout, aside from a suggestion of 'the spell of love/lust' (a virulent plague in the 24th century, leading to Riker being taken advantage of in the Host by a loved up beverly, and that grey haired affliction of Troi in Man Of The People.) including having enough control over herself to reject Ronin when he lays the smackdown on her one true love, Picard (seriously, Bev and Jean Luc, via this episode and attached, are like a gothic romance novel of the seven seas. From a certain perspective it's very amusing...throw in Q and it's almost classical.) and when he starts using her nans corpse to start zapping her friends.
50 shades of grey is probably much worse. Was it a clip show too?
I don't go with the whole 'rape' angle on crusher, as at no point was there ever shown to be a mind control or power aspect beyond endorphin addiction (which would be natural I suppose) or lust.
He lied about who he was, and gets violent towards her friends, which makes him a gothic novel stereotype, but Ronin (not Ronan Keating, who used insidious mind control on throngs of middle aged women and teenage girls in a much different way.....) was never able to control the Howard women (Beverlys follows the path rather literally worn by her grandmother already by becoming a doctor, though yes...squick at jumping her nans Boytoy.) and beverly acts of her own volition throughout, aside from a suggestion of 'the spell of love/lust' (a virulent plague in the 24th century, leading to Riker being taken advantage of in the Host by a loved up beverly, and that grey haired affliction of Troi in Man Of The People.) including having enough control over herself to reject Ronin when he lays the smackdown on her one true love, Picard (seriously, Bev and Jean Luc, via this episode and attached, are like a gothic romance novel of the seven seas. From a certain perspective it's very amusing...throw in Q and it's almost classical.) and when he starts using her nans corpse to start zapping her friends.
50 shades of grey is probably much worse. Was it a clip show too?
Manipulating her and getting sex from her is rape. If it's a choice she wouldn't have made on her own and only made it because of things he was doing to her it's rape. Look how she behaves in her quarters, this isn't a woman in love missing her beau. This is a woman coming off a high needing another fix. She make choices we know she wouldn't normally make, like throwing away her career, she's being manipulated. Robin exploits that, with sex, to get what he wants (her life energy in order to live.) That. Is. RAPE!
I am just saying that from the context of the episode, that's not what they seem to be going for (versus say The Child, where that very much should have been dealt with and appallingly wasn't, or Up the Long Ladder with Riker and Plastic having their genetic material taken without their consent.)
Beverly seems to be making these choices of her own volition all the way through, is manipulated BY the not-sex but really it's sex stuff, it's never said that this is what Ronin needs. Ronin is essentially dressing up as something he is not, and providing 'sexual' (it's glowing energy wriggles, and we know somethings going on) attention in order to get what he wants. If anything, he is a gigolo, and beverly is thrown into a midlife crisis.
Ronin needs the life energy juju, nd this is how he gets it....manipulative relationship, abusive (within the usual gothic stereotypes you see in say...Wuthering Heights) yes...but, as muddled as bits of this story is, including execution, I find it difficult to agree that Beverly is being manipulated into sex in this story (which yes would be rape. No arguments there) she is being manipulated into being in and remaining in the relationship, but the 'sex' seems to be part of the manipulation, not the reason for it. It's all a bit Frasier quote 'how can men use sex to get what we want! Sex is what we want!'
Only here we have exactly that happening (in so far as incorporeal green blobs have gender.)
Flip it around, have it be Picard not Beverly, and turn Ronin into a Succubus type character? Does it still look the same.
I think this is a gothic romance, with a space Succubus grafted onto it. It shares its stable with stuff like 'The Man Trap' in that regard.
Please note, I am not arguing with anyone's definition of rape, merely disagreeing with what is going on in this story.
I didn't watch TNG during the original run, and by the time I did Sub Rosa had become infamous. Several people had suggested I just skip it, but I wanted to watch every episode good or bad, so I figured I could donate 45 minutes of my life to the cause. It certainly wasn't my idea of a good time, but I felt like it's reputation was a little over-blown. At least the people I had talked to had over-blown it. Saying things like "Once you watch it you can't un-watch it", which I found a little too dramatic. It was just kind of lame, and I was actually a little curious how it would turn out. I can think of some other Trek episodes I'd put lower than Sub Rosa, because they were both lame and predictable. The DS9 episode Rejoined for example. At least Sub Rosa was actually kind of funny in it's cheesiness. I'd certainly never watch Sub Rosa again on purpose, it wouldn't be torture if I had to though.
The erotic scenes were hot but also unpleasant-disturbing, indeed too much coercion and manipulation and too little consent, and, though McFadden tried, just overdone. Beverly going dark for an evil spirit/addictive pleasure could have worked but, aside from McFadden, there was too little conviction. In fact, I thought the worst aspect was that the plotting in generally felt too cheesily predictable, cliched and half-hearted, especially Ronin acting evil when it wasn't to the benefit of or was detrimental to his interests.
There are some aspects that work or are at least interesting, like loving a parent's/grandparent's lover (and also that Ronin openly and clearly and seemingly sincerely claims that he loved all the "Howard women" rather than only Beverly and Beverly isn't bothered by having so many predecessors) and that the other characters weren't judgmental of that but that makes it more disappointing that Ronin turns out to be Evil!!!!
There can be some comparison to Picard's storyline in "Liaisons," the woman lying to him, even without the ability to otherwise control him, is portrayed as pretty unethical and coercive and Picard is outraged but does, somewhat but not very oddly, in the end forgive (the scenario changes somewhat, with there still being deception and coercion but for a different reason).
There are some aspects that work or are at least interesting, like loving a parent's/grandparent's lover (and also that Ronin openly and clearly and seemingly sincerely claims that he loved all the "Howard women" rather than only Beverly and Beverly isn't bothered by having so many predecessors) and that the other characters weren't judgmental of that but that makes it more disappointing that Ronin turns out to be Evil!!!!
There can be some comparison to Picard's storyline in "Liaisons," the woman lying to him, even without the ability to otherwise control him, is portrayed as pretty unethical and coercive and Picard is outraged but does, somewhat but not very oddly, in the end forgive (the scenario changes somewhat, with there still being deception and coercion but for a different reason).
I think the whole episode is basically a standard gothic romance mash up (that was their intent) and a lot of the blurred lines come from sticking too close to that template.
Liaisons doesn't have that supernatural aspect, though interestingly does have the weather aspect, and attics in the form of Jeffries tubes.
That's just wrong on so many levels.
I'm behind again. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'll have it up in the next week if I don't do it this weekend. I may go with Rama's suggestion and try doing a "full recap" like I did here.
First thing Rama said I agree with. Good luck with that, for what it's worth, I really enjoyed it and thought it was well done.
Thanks. As I said up-thread the Sub Rosa one didn't take me that long to do, but it's just a matter of finding a good slot of time to do this in and I haven't had many opportunities the last couple weeks with other projects and personal-life stuff going on. I should have a chance sometime in the next few days, most realistically probably Monday night or Tuesday.
I'm surprised no mention was made in this thread of the names on two of the tombstones next to nana's: "Vader" and "McFly". Seems like the art staff were taking this episode as seriously as it deserved. Probably not visible prior to the HD remasters. Your review was very entertaining, Trekker4747!
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