TNG movie dislike?

[retroenzo]

I must admit I'm a bit confused because I've seen a few people on here comment on how much they disliked the TNG movies, and I don't understand why.

Okay Insurrection was on the dull side, and Nemesis wasn't great. However, I loved Generations. And First Contact is my favourite Trek movie of all. And I kind of thought that was the general concensus of them.

So why the dislike over TNG films in general? This isn't meant to be an argument thread by the way. I like the TNG films. I'm just curious as to why those few people don't...

 

[Lance]

Part of it is, I think, franchise fatigue. Objectively the movies all have their good points, but subjectively there are a lot of people who feel that Trek as a franchise was beginning to be on the wane after nearly 2 decades of production, and that the people behind the scenes were becoming very "risk adverse". There was (and still kind of is) a feeling that the TNG movies failed to reach the potential of the TV show, certainly that they didn't make as good use of the show's ensemble.
Personally, I think that view is incredibly unfair. But it persists. (The same perception dogs the later seasons of Voyager, as well.)

 

[OtherGene]

Yeah, risk adverse is probably a good description of the productions and perhaps one of the reasons their appeal was limited. I'm not saying I necessarily wanted to see Ron Perlman gut Jonathon Frakes in Nemesis but at the same time the last two movies felt a little like extended episodes.

But I loved them all, to be honest, and it annoys me when Star Trek fans slate them. A "poor" Star Trek movie, to me at least, is still better than a "great" Harry Potter movie. Subjectivity, it's a bitch.

 

[Tosk]

I can enjoy them, but they just don't grab me much. The last three feel very formula, and I'm not much of a fan of Stewart's pushing to be action/ladies man more often. I don't like First Contact anywhere near as much as most, but then I don't hate Insurrection or Nemesis as much as most either...so it evens out.

 

[locutus101]

Aside from First Contact which feels like a fluke, I think they're all below average. Nemesis is abysmal. Everything has been said about Nemesis failings so I don't think I need an extended explanation here.

 

[2takesfrakes]

It's unfortunate that TNG movies aren't LOVED, like they should be! They all have problems, some of which annoy more than others, but they're all out to give the fans The Vulcan Salute ... not the Middle Finger! "Let me entertain you, let me make you smile" is their message .... for ALL of them! And if you let them, they can -- and they will.

 

[JesterFace]

I think the reason I don't like the movies is that I like the series and then the movies are so different, in atmosphere and everything, they feel like from a different franchise... Not that it's a completely bad thing but after watching the series, it just doesn't feel "right" how the movies feel.

 

[SPCTRE]

Okay Insurrection was on the dull side, and Nemesis wasn't great. However, I loved Generations. And First Contact is my favourite Trek movie of all. And I kind of thought that was the general concensus of them.

So why the dislike over TNG films in general?

FC is very popular on this board (there have been numerous polls in the past, among the first 10 movies, FC is often only beaten by TWoK). GEN, less so.

I like both.

 

[TheSubCommander]

I must admit I'm a bit confused because I've seen a few people on here comment on how much they disliked the TNG movies, and I don't understand why.

Okay Insurrection was on the dull side, and Nemesis wasn't great. However, I loved Generations. And First Contact is my favourite Trek movie of all. And I kind of thought that was the general concensus of them.

So why the dislike over TNG films in general? This isn't meant to be an argument thread by the way. I like the TNG films. I'm just curious as to why those few people don't...

Here's my reasoning about the TNG films

Generations:
When I first saw it, it was literally just 6 months after TNG ended. It was more like a season 8 premier for me, than a movie, because at that time I counted on TNG having at least 6 films, like the TOS cast did. Then when I heard it was going to have Kirk, well, what was not to like? But man, when the E-D was destroyed and Kirk was killed stupidly, plus Data gaining an emotion chip that destroyed his character, I walked away from Generations very disappointed. Now years after the release, and after the other sequels, I am at a point where I am OK with Generations, but all through the 90s, I hated it.

First Contact:
Not going to spend a lot of time on it, because not only is this my favorite TNG movie, it is one of my favorite Trek movies.

Insurrection
More of a two parter TNG episode than a movie, it just seemed unworthy of the big screen. I don't hate the movie, just sort of meh on it. It had great visuals, particularly the Big E battle in the Briar Patch, but it's attempts at humor just totally sagged. Especially Picard wearing a stupid dread lock hat, and the hms pinafore shuttlecraft scene with Data, Picard, and Worf.

Nemesis
This one was the one that TNG went out on, and went out with a whimper. Visually, it was probably the best TNG film, especially the space battle scene at the end. But a clone of Picard,who doesn't even look like Picard? Yet another Data twin? Nosferatu Remans? But the worst part is it's plot aped TWOK a little too closely for my liking, particularly killing Data. These days, I don't mind Nemesis so much, but I still look at it as a lot of missed opportunities.

 

[Paradise City]

Generations: A good film. These TNG writers write reasonable for the TNG cast. Got a bit overrawed writing something good for Kirk though. Nexus I see as a Guardian of Forever kinda device, I accepted it on those terms. McDowell is good but his range isn't used to the fullest potential which is somewhat frustrating.

First Contact: Sick of the borg, I feel "Rambo Picard" going full Ahab is scraping the bottom of the barrel of that particular character. I don't like the concept of the borg queen with the caveat that Alice Krige punches above her weight. But you wanna know something? Despite my hating most of the composite elements of this film, I quite enjoyed it all-in-all. Go figure.

Insurrection: I commend them for going off the beaten track and making a somewhat lighter film. It's a film that has alot of heart but it's a low key film - kinda at a TV movie level. Also suffers somewhat by having too many villains at once, creates alot of noise, so the true menace of a single villain isn't properly conveyed.

Nemesis I'm actually surprised by the sheer negative response to this film. It's a fair film but it's a film that's a composite of a lot that went on before rather than truly being a truly original film. But I'm happy enough with it, it's solid fare. Again, with Hardy, we go back to this thing with the TNG films where the star talent is underultilised.

 

[LJones41]

"Generations" was okay. I loved "First Contact". I have no opinion of "Insurrection" one way or the other. I did not like "Nemesis".

 

[suarezguy]

The TV series had such great stories and characters and even outright excitement that the movie stories and characters, FC aside, were very underwhelming and it was especially disappointing that there was such an attempt to focus so much on Picard and Data and Action!!!!.
Generations was at least interesting but the last two movies had really uninspired stories and direction.

 

[Paradise City]

The TV series had such great stories and characters and even outright excitement that the movie stories and characters, FC aside, were very underwhelming and it was especially disappointing that there was such an attempt to focus so much on Picard and Data and Action!!!!.
Generations was at least interesting but the last two movies had really uninspired stories and direction.

Well, my overarching mental picture of the three films after Generations is Picard and Data, going Rambo, striding around with clunky high powered phaser rifles (or riding around in novelty buggies). Which is an unfortunate image that lacks the finesse of the TNG series.

 

[johnjm22]

When the TNG movies were made, the show had been on for 7 seasons. And season number 7 was pretty weak. I feel like TNG was just out of gas, which is one of the major reasons the movies were so uninspired. There wasn't much story left to tell with this crew.

Compare that to TOS, which was only on for 3 seasons, and took a long break. The movies felt fresh.

 

[johnjm22]

Also, I think First Contact is the most overrated Trek film of all. It's pretty bad.

 

[Lance]

When the TNG movies were made, the show had been on for 7 seasons. And season number 7 was pretty weak. I feel like TNG was just out of gas, which is one of the major reasons the movies were so uninspired. There wasn't much story left to tell with this crew.

Compare that to TOS, which was only on for 3 seasons, and took a long break. The movies felt fresh.

One of the more curious things is that TOS largely went for standalone episodes, but developed "ongoing story arcs" in the movies. ST II, III, IV, V and VI are all thematically linked, which gives them a theatrical 'oomph' that the TV show didn't have. They also used the larger ensemble a bit better, which again TOS as a TV show didn't. It gave us a new take on the characters.

Ironically, TNG the TV series always had a better sense of continuity.... ongoing themes, arcs, references both forwards and backwards, and a strong ensemble who all got used very effectively. That was baked into the format in Season 1 and continued to be built on in the years that followed, eventually creating this rich universe that TOS only ever hinted at. However, when they moved to the big screen, the stories became myopically focused on Picard and Data, ignoring some members of the ensemble, and the stories were all written as stand-alones, instead of having strong links between them. They actually feel less theatrical than the TOS movies, more episodic. Heck, they feel more episodic than TNG the TV series did some of the time.

It's like the TNG movies took the complete opposite tact to the TOS ones.

 

[F. King Daniel]

With the exception of Insurrection, I'm a fan of the Next Gen movies, and prefer them to the majority of the series episodes.

I like Big Damn Hero Picard with two phaser rifles kicking Borg and Reman ass. But then, I got a kick out of geriatric John McClaine in the later Die Hard movies.

 

[Kor]

The TNG movies became the Picard and Data action show.

That's not what the TV show was all about.

Kor

 

[Relayer1]

The films were just bad, in different ways.

Generations was awful, First Contact competent but uninspired, Insurrection dull and Nemesis (probably my favourite) nonsensical and largely despised.

None were a patch on the TV show...

 

[CaptainMurdock]

Generations was an awful mess and didn't make any damn sense. If all Soran wanted was to get into the nexus, then he should have worn a space suit and had himself shot into it. Data's emotion chip nonsense, Kirk's stupid death. It was B.A.D. The worst Star Trek movie ever.

First Contact. It was good and I liked it.

Insurrection: Boring and uninteresting. Why does Picard care so much for the Ba'ku when he wasn't against moving Native American's off another planet? What a hypocrite. The Ba'ku are self absorbed jerks. The villains were lame. Ect.

Nemesis: Same as Insurrection. Boring and uninteresting and just all around stupid.