Spoilers TNG: Collateral Damage by David Mack Review Thread
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The latest Literary Treks is now up: Literary Treks 286: The Wrong Thing for the Right Reason, in which Bruce Gibson and I talk to David Mack about Collateral Damage. This was a really fun episode to make, we got into some great discussions about this novel!
Are you referring to something he said in the present thread, or to how he writes lines for Worf in the present opus?
If it's the latter, then he's just doing his job, and doing it well.
I think he's talking about my impression of Worf in a recent audio podcast.Are you referring to something he said in the present thread, or to how he writes lines for Worf in the present opus?
If it's the latter, then he's just doing his job, and doing it well.
Near the end of the Literary Treks Interview he has a moment where he does a Worf voice.Are you referring to something he said in the present thread, or to how he writes lines for Worf in the present opus?
If it's the latter, then he's just doing his job, and doing it well.
Ah.
Finally got a chance to actually finish this bad boy after starting it the day it came out lol.
Couple small notes:
I very much enjoyed it BUT as I said at the begining of the thread I wish it had been 2 books. 1 a legal drama set on Earth about Picard, and 2 a enterprise set Captain Worf story that ends with him getting his Command and his new first officer hinted at at the end of the book.
I get why this can't happen but I would have loved expanded versions of both these stories.
Finally I really thought @David Mack 's interview on Literary Treks was excellent, his points about worf were spot on.
(also real quick to go back to a convo from 2 pages ago, I've seen every episode of every trek a ton of times, I've read every dang book, and I had NO memory of who Okona was until I saw his picture in this thread and it snapped back into place for me. People can be huge fans and not remember every detail. Luckily not remembering who he was had no impact on my enjoyment of the book as it was well written!)
Couple small notes:
I very much enjoyed it BUT as I said at the begining of the thread I wish it had been 2 books. 1 a legal drama set on Earth about Picard, and 2 a enterprise set Captain Worf story that ends with him getting his Command and his new first officer hinted at at the end of the book.
I get why this can't happen but I would have loved expanded versions of both these stories.
Finally I really thought @David Mack 's interview on Literary Treks was excellent, his points about worf were spot on.
(also real quick to go back to a convo from 2 pages ago, I've seen every episode of every trek a ton of times, I've read every dang book, and I had NO memory of who Okona was until I saw his picture in this thread and it snapped back into place for me. People can be huge fans and not remember every detail. Luckily not remembering who he was had no impact on my enjoyment of the book as it was well written!)
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I completed this novel and rated it above average.
There was a lot to like. I'm glad to have a resolution to Picard's involvement in the removal of President Zife from a legal standpoint---and in a manner that makes sense. Akaar had previously mentioned Picard would never be promoted beyond captain, which was born out, and it makes some sense. Back in the "A Time To..." days Picard himself regretted some of the actions he needed to take, even if they were more or less unavoidable.
I did like the Worf in command storyline with the Nausicaan's, however, I found that to be a bit overwhelmed by the Picard half of the book. That's not really David Mack's fault, of course we as fans would be interested in what would happen to him. But the Worf side of the storyline was still well done and we still see some consequences after all these years of the final Borg invasion. It also featured the return of Okona--while he's still a maverick in many ways there is a hint of responsibility there. I liked that Okona was deeply troubled, even upset, about his orders to destroy the station with all hands. He may be a rogue and lack some responsibility---but he's not a bad guy. Killing innocent people, even for a greater cause, deeply troubled him.
I also liked that Mack gave a bit more complexity to the Nausicaans. In general they have been more akin to the neighborhood bullies. They still have some of that, but there is much more to them then simply being bullies. And Mack has a rather unique solution to just what to do with them--esp. by having them reside in the Klingon Empire, and not elsewhere in the Federation.
One thing I was disappointed in is I was hoping to see some hint about the upcoming Picard show. This seemed a straight up sequel to the prior relaunches. I expected that for the most part---but I had hoped Mack would put some little hint. Esp. since he indicated several months ago for fans not to sweat it, that they had a 'plan.' I didn't see any indications of what that might possibly be in "Collateral Damage". I never expected anything major, just maybe a teeny hint. But it ended much as we started, with Picard still in command and the rest of the crew in place (of course it's always possible he was just pulling our leg ).
The other disappointment I had---which has nothing really to do with David Mack and is not his fault---is that I can't help but feel like this will be the last Star Trek: The Next Generation novel, and probably the last relaunch novel in the timeline (Voyager: "To Lose the Earth" is still due to come out, but the Voyager series is a few years behind at this point in the timeline--and while in the same universe as the other relaunches the Voyager novels are sort of doing their own thing). I suspect future novels that will feature anyone from TNG, including Captain Picard, will be Picard novels and likely center around that show.
I had also hoped to see the relaunches tackle the destruction of Romulus and it's impact on the Typhon Pact and relations between the Pact and the Khitomer Powers. I don't see that happening now. First, the Picard show may feature it directly on the show beyond what we saw in Star Trek (2009)---and even if it is left to the novels I have to think it will be in the Picard novels and the Picard show narrative which I don't expect to be consistent with the relaunches.
There was a lot to like. I'm glad to have a resolution to Picard's involvement in the removal of President Zife from a legal standpoint---and in a manner that makes sense. Akaar had previously mentioned Picard would never be promoted beyond captain, which was born out, and it makes some sense. Back in the "A Time To..." days Picard himself regretted some of the actions he needed to take, even if they were more or less unavoidable.
I did like the Worf in command storyline with the Nausicaan's, however, I found that to be a bit overwhelmed by the Picard half of the book. That's not really David Mack's fault, of course we as fans would be interested in what would happen to him. But the Worf side of the storyline was still well done and we still see some consequences after all these years of the final Borg invasion. It also featured the return of Okona--while he's still a maverick in many ways there is a hint of responsibility there. I liked that Okona was deeply troubled, even upset, about his orders to destroy the station with all hands. He may be a rogue and lack some responsibility---but he's not a bad guy. Killing innocent people, even for a greater cause, deeply troubled him.
I also liked that Mack gave a bit more complexity to the Nausicaans. In general they have been more akin to the neighborhood bullies. They still have some of that, but there is much more to them then simply being bullies. And Mack has a rather unique solution to just what to do with them--esp. by having them reside in the Klingon Empire, and not elsewhere in the Federation.
One thing I was disappointed in is I was hoping to see some hint about the upcoming Picard show. This seemed a straight up sequel to the prior relaunches. I expected that for the most part---but I had hoped Mack would put some little hint. Esp. since he indicated several months ago for fans not to sweat it, that they had a 'plan.' I didn't see any indications of what that might possibly be in "Collateral Damage". I never expected anything major, just maybe a teeny hint. But it ended much as we started, with Picard still in command and the rest of the crew in place (of course it's always possible he was just pulling our leg
).The other disappointment I had---which has nothing really to do with David Mack and is not his fault---is that I can't help but feel like this will be the last Star Trek: The Next Generation novel, and probably the last relaunch novel in the timeline (Voyager: "To Lose the Earth" is still due to come out, but the Voyager series is a few years behind at this point in the timeline--and while in the same universe as the other relaunches the Voyager novels are sort of doing their own thing). I suspect future novels that will feature anyone from TNG, including Captain Picard, will be Picard novels and likely center around that show.
I had also hoped to see the relaunches tackle the destruction of Romulus and it's impact on the Typhon Pact and relations between the Pact and the Khitomer Powers. I don't see that happening now. First, the Picard show may feature it directly on the show beyond what we saw in Star Trek (2009)---and even if it is left to the novels I have to think it will be in the Picard novels and the Picard show narrative which I don't expect to be consistent with the relaunches.
Many thanks @Kertrats47 for the podcast links for the episode on @David Mack honestly it was a great episode. I was riveted for the 1:45 minutes in total and subscribed.
Honestly it made @David Mack warm and personable to me. I guess there is a disconnect for me sometimes reading posts on the forums. Apologies.
I had an observation and a question that lingered from the show:
Just out of curiosity I didnt understand the particulars of the Time to series such as which author messed up the direction of the Time to series, but how did things change? I dont understand. What would have been the different direction?
Also I agree wholeheartedly with @David Mack statements about about the mistake or failure of what happened with the Star Wars expanded universe into legends.
I hope and pray the same DOES NOT happen with the Trek Lit universe as it was completely unnecessary and in the end was a huge failure. The Star Wars Lit universe isnt really good going forward, and in my mind I could has lived with the inconsistences after all. Good or bad.
Just a great episode and podcast. Cheers to @David Mack and @Kertrats47 and all involved with the podcast.
-Koric
Honestly it made @David Mack warm and personable to me. I guess there is a disconnect for me sometimes reading posts on the forums. Apologies.
I had an observation and a question that lingered from the show:
Just out of curiosity I didnt understand the particulars of the Time to series such as which author messed up the direction of the Time to series, but how did things change? I dont understand. What would have been the different direction?
Also I agree wholeheartedly with @David Mack statements about about the mistake or failure of what happened with the Star Wars expanded universe into legends.
I hope and pray the same DOES NOT happen with the Trek Lit universe as it was completely unnecessary and in the end was a huge failure. The Star Wars Lit universe isnt really good going forward, and in my mind I could has lived with the inconsistences after all. Good or bad.
Just a great episode and podcast. Cheers to @David Mack and @Kertrats47 and all involved with the podcast.
-Koric
Thanks for the kind words, Koric! Welcome aboard! 
Dragging this thread up as I just finished the novel. Kept me start to finish and I enjoyed it a lot. Was it a coincidence that this was the second book in a row to involve ripping out a runabout warp core as a power source?! Fun mix of tactical, engineering and spy adventure with the courtroom drama neatly tying up a rather old story thread in a positive way.
I think now that what we need / deserve is some sort of a wrap of the last several years of the Novelverse, it’s own All Good Things. You could see little elements of it in the “second star to the right...” - if this was the last ever TNG book of this novelverse, you could imagine them all heading out to continue their voyages, but it just wouldn’t be satisfactory I feel.
That being said, from a business perspective I can’t see the sense in keeping this litverse going and confusing new / re-engaged audiences who are reading novels in a completely different continuity to STP. So reframe them as “Legends” and publish one more to wrap the whole lot up. Bring everyone to the Bajoran system to wrap up one last adventure and send everyone off to their rewards.
I think now that what we need / deserve is some sort of a wrap of the last several years of the Novelverse, it’s own All Good Things. You could see little elements of it in the “second star to the right...” - if this was the last ever TNG book of this novelverse, you could imagine them all heading out to continue their voyages, but it just wouldn’t be satisfactory I feel.
That being said, from a business perspective I can’t see the sense in keeping this litverse going and confusing new / re-engaged audiences who are reading novels in a completely different continuity to STP. So reframe them as “Legends” and publish one more to wrap the whole lot up. Bring everyone to the Bajoran system to wrap up one last adventure and send everyone off to their rewards.
That's not what's been said. David Mack has indicated there's "a plan" but has not elaborated on what that plan is or what it involves.
In recent years sales of the novels have clearly been tailing off, given the reduction in the number published and the fact the publisher was happy to leave a big gap while they sorted out the rights. In other words, there’s a hardcore but slimming audience. With Trek back on TV that audience is likely to be growing, but maintaining this secondary alternative narrative probably isn’t sustainable from a business perspective. I’d say they do a Star Wars Legends on it and move on. Lots of space to maybe fill in other new stories and retell some old stories, ala Thrawn in Legends into New Canon. But this 20 year ride we’ve been on is coming to a close. I’d just like one good book (or series!) to go out on.
But with an increase in average word count per novel (as well as an increase in price per novel), so I think it kind of balances out. The switch to trades was not specifically about Star Trek, but was a response to the overall industry trend away from mass-market paperbacks. I mean, the Pocket Books MMPB line had already come under the supervision of S&S's Gallery Books imprint, which mainly does trade paperbacks, in a company restructuring years earlier. So it's basically just streamlining the operation.
Why in the world would you assume they were "happy" about it, or that they had any choice in the delay? It takes two or more parties to make a deal, after all. I doubt that any of the involved parties were happy with how long it took to come to a mutually agreeable outcome to negotiations.
Well, that much stands to reason, but purely as a function of the way tie-ins work, nothing to do with sales performance. I mean, the same thing happened when ST:TNG came along three decades ago -- the previous novel continuity was dropped because it wasn't compatible with what the new show established. And the books were selling fine back then. It's not about sales, it's just the intrinsic purpose of tie-ins to follow the lead of the thing they're adapting.
The move towards fewer books at a higher price point is clear margin control with reducing sales. A longer book might see the author get paid more, but fewer books will cut production and distribution costs while funnelling the sales into the smaller number of books as maybe the fans can’t be so picky. I suppose the broader point is that they’ve been managing decline and now will be wise to grab the new opportunity with both hands, on the basis that the hardcore lit fans are likely to come along for the ride along with the new / reinvigorated audience.
Still, I’m sure some sort of a final wrap up novel would sell very well and be satisfying for us who’ve been in the current continuity for a while. I’m comfortable with multiple streams of the universe to exist at once, or have existed, as it’s all just fiction after all. And comics show us how multiple versions can exist at once, though I don’t think it works as well for books and certainly not when you’ve got signs of ailing sales in the version of the multiverse you’re selling today. But as I was approaching the end of CD I was just thinking, there’s some things here that could pass for quasi character resolutions (Worf you can infer will become a captain, Geordi finally got the girl(s), Picard never will be let off the bridge of that ship and will keep sailing on till morning) but a giant almost fan service What You Leave Behind / All Good Things rather than Endgame / These Are The Voyages would be neat.
Still, I’m sure some sort of a final wrap up novel would sell very well and be satisfying for us who’ve been in the current continuity for a while. I’m comfortable with multiple streams of the universe to exist at once, or have existed, as it’s all just fiction after all. And comics show us how multiple versions can exist at once, though I don’t think it works as well for books and certainly not when you’ve got signs of ailing sales in the version of the multiverse you’re selling today. But as I was approaching the end of CD I was just thinking, there’s some things here that could pass for quasi character resolutions (Worf you can infer will become a captain, Geordi finally got the girl(s), Picard never will be let off the bridge of that ship and will keep sailing on till morning) but a giant almost fan service What You Leave Behind / All Good Things rather than Endgame / These Are The Voyages would be neat.
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