Spoilers TNG: Collateral Damage by David Mack Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by tomswift2002, Oct 2, 2019.

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Rate TNG: Colateral Damage

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  1. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I hope the novels don’t have to change because of Picard. Everything looks so depressing in that. I want my stories to be fun. :)
    Plus, where is my Aventine series?
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Again, it's not a change specific to Star Trek. Here's Simon & Schuster's page for new releases -- there are only a handful of mass-market paperbacks on the list. They barely carry them anymore. Of the books they have for sale overall, under "Format" in the "Refine your search" menu, they list the following:

    Trade Paperback (39,805)
    eBook (39,851)
    Hardcover (13,674)
    Audio Books (4,613)
    Mass Market Paperback (2,237)

    So it's not about Star Trek sales. It's not about Star Trek at all, because ST is a tiny, tiny part of S&S's business and does not exist in a vacuum. It's about the fact that most books these days are trades, e-books, hardcovers, and audiobooks, and MMPBs are dying out because they just aren't as popular as those other formats anymore.

    Remember, there have always been occasional Star Trek trade paperbacks alongside the MMPBs, usually anthologies and omnibus editions. So it's not so much a move from MMPBs to TPBs as a reorientation of the existing TPB line to take over doing the original novels that the MMPB line used to do. It was either that or publish them as e-book exclusives.
     
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  3. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    Seconding that!
     
  4. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    I agree with Christopher that this is an industry wide trend. It also appears that we will no longer be getting a book/month. When they restarted I thought that was just because they were restarting after a prolonged gap with contract negotiations. But we're still only getting maybe 6 to 8 a year.

    I also would love to see a closing novel. I noted on another thread in particular for DS9 which has a couple major story threads unresolved. I mean, if I have to I can look at "Collateral Damage" as a finale for TNG as it tied up one major loose end with the Section 31 angle. There are other loose ends but that was probably the major one. Otherwise it was sort of like a "and their adventures into the sunset" continued sort of way. I'm curious if Kirsten Beyer will close out the major threads in her upcoming Voyager book, which I have to think will probably be the final Voyager book. And that will just leave DS9 without any sort of finale. And sadly I don't think we're going to get it. I think the upcoming Voyager book will be the last to take place in the relaunch universe (and Voyager is a few years behind TNG and DS9 so I don't expect it to address any hanging threads from the other series).

    I nominate Christopher for a final DS9 novel ;) . I believe that's the only series he's never written a story for if I'm not mistaken so it only seems fair, LOL.

    At one time I think that would have been very possible. Now I think that ship has sailed. I personally want it all, but I think a large swath of the novelverse is over now. All you'll see in the future (other than the upcoming Voyager book) is books based on the original series and the current shows. Anything based on the previous spin-offs? Not going to happen at this point, sad to say.

    You know, I haven't kept up with every little detail about Picard and I won't see it until it comes out on Blu-Ray, but that's the sense I get. But what I've seen thus far looks a bit down trodden. Like Picard is down on life, had some bad things happen to him, that sort of thing. Sometimes TNG gets criticized because it was so positive a lot of the times and the Federation seemed so perfect. But you know what, I liked that about the show. With everything going on in the world sometimes it's nice to watch something positive for a change. Picard seems to be going the other way. Bad stuff happened and now everyone seems to be facing hardship. Ugh. I don't know. I was hoping it would be more positive and fun. But I guess that's not popular right now. Everyone likes doom and gloom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  5. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Oops, my bad. I just saw Christopher did write a DS9 short story way back in 2003 (it looks like it might have been his 2nd Star Trek story). But I'd still love to seem him tackle a full length DS9 novel :P
     
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  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, that's right. I only did the one story.


    I appreciate the vote of confidence, though it'd be a lot of work to bring myself up to speed on all of it. Part of the reason I never really pursued writing for post-finale DS9 was because I found the massive, tight continuity a little intimidating. Any tentative ideas I might've had would probably be rendered obsolete by whatever the next book did. Although I guess that'd be less of an issue now.
     
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  7. Krupp

    Krupp Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Is there any particular explanation for why the DS9 novels just sort of stopped? Like, was it authors became unavailable and then time moved on, or the interest from the fans just wasn’t there.... seems odd. Anyway, a final novel for this verse bringing that story off to a close would be neat. I think actually 1 novel or series, or even short series, that brings the whole 24th Century gang together, rather than just a DS9 “and then they all...” alongside a VOY one and presumably this one for TNG. Total fan service, but what the heck.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The last DS9 books were in late 2017, shortly before the hiatus began due to the licensing renewal delays. Since the line came back, it's been exclusively DSC, TOS, and TNG. So it's not that DS9 specifically came to a stop, just that the focus at the moment is on the new series and the top-selling older series.
     
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  9. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think it was intentional. The last actual DS9 novel I believe was the Gamma novel featuring Captain Sisko. But then there was the contract negotiations and there were no novels for a year.

    By the time the contract was signed and the books started up again Discovery had started, there were less books and it seems S&S wants to focus on original series novels and novels based on current shows. TNG got 2 additional novels I think probably partly because of the upcoming Picard show. They probably thought they could capitalize a bit on that announcement (even though the novels were part of the relaunch storyline).

    So I think it's just a case of bad timing. I'm sure at the time of the last DS9 book the plan was to continue as they have been but with a year off of novels priorities obviously changed.

    Still, it'd be nice to have one more DS9 novel if for no other reason to close out some of the major story threads. You'll never cover every last detail but there were a few major stories going on that could use some closure.

    That's true. DS9's relaunch, maybe because it was the first to really try a relaunch, has a lot going on in it. And events that happened years ago still have an impact on current stories to various degrees. And then there was the 3 year gap (I believe it was) that they slowly filled in as the books continued, adding to the complexity. One reason I'm glad the relaunch authors will give a little blurb here and there about prior stories when it applies. Sometimes it's hard to remember it all.

    I guess it wouldn't be a lot of fun to take on that as well. After all (well, assuming it were the finale novel for DS9) basically you'd be tying up other authors' loose ends.

    And of course I'd love to see Enterprise continue someday and while I have my doubts about future books in that series it's probably more likely you'd write a novel in that series since that's unofficially become sort of your baby now. ;) And at least the Enterprise relaunch is the one series likely to be unaffected by Picard (or Discovery) so that one could conceivably continue in its present form.
     
  10. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    We have a new wrinkle, though: the word from Mr. Kurtzman as of this past weekend is that two more live-action series - premises as yet unrevealed - are also now in the works. In addition to DSC, PIC, S31, Lower Decks, and the Nickelodeon show.
    Awaiting word of the consequences...
     
  11. Krupp

    Krupp Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Feels like apart from STP they’re keeping the shows in the new look lens flare era of TOS. But the word that STP is the most awaited show according to IMDB search trends would indicate that there’s plenty more Trek to stream, particularly considering IMDB owners and data decision making nerds Amazon are handling the distribution of STP outside the US.

    It’d be cool to get some word from the publishers on the plan or non plan to wrap up this continuity. Be unfortunate for it to tail off in an ellipsis as DS9 has just sort of fallen into.
     
  12. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Sadly, I think "Collateral Damage" may be it. I don't think they'll be any announcement. They'll just fade into the past.

    I mean, there's still Voyager "To Lose the Earth" but as that's a few years behind in the timeline "Collateral Damage" will probably the last in the relaunch timeline.
     
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  13. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    An intuition:

    The "Novel-'verse" many of us have been reading - and some of us, writing - this past decade or so has been travelling down the road where Picard took Kirk's advice in Generations to heart and kept it there.

    What we're about to see on TV or streaming video - depending on where we live - is what happened on the road where he set Kirk's advice aside for reasons that seemed to make sense when he made the choice.

    As for how the novel program makes its transitions...well, we've had promises made to us here by people who've been working with both novels and TV/streaming video. I tend to think there will be an effort made to keep those promises.
     
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  14. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Well, we do know that there are alternate universes out there. Picard is following one universe while the novels went down another track, much as like you mentioned.

    Time will tell which I prefer. I do like that in the novelverse version of TNG Picard stayed in command of the Enterprise and they started exploring again. There was a lot of intrigue and questionable things around Captain Picard, but ultimately he took the best action he could at the time to protect the Federation and he was mostly absolved. He may be barred from promotions but he is where he can do the most good. As captain of the Enterprise.

    I do have concerns about Picard based on what I've seen so far. It seems there he became and admiral, something bad happened and he hasn't been the same since. I've always liked Star Trek's hopeful future and positivity. I'm hoping Picard isn't as it appears, a down trodden show where the world is against Picard and he's lost his spirit or something.

    As far as promises made (I believe you're talking about David Mack's comment about a year ago)...I wouldn't read too much into that. I'm not sure if it was tongue in cheek---or maybe at the time what little we knew maybe he thought they could salvage something. Based on the previews alone and some of the other information coming out (like the Countdown comic) it doesn't seem like anything was salvaged or used from the novelverse. I think the best we can hope for is maybe they include a novelverse Easter egg, like some event from the novels they might reference, or maybe they incorporate a character from the novels in the show. But I think that's about it. I don't think the novels could be salvaged. The only other possibility is to continue to litverse as an alternate universe as is, separate from Picard...but that would be unprecedented for Star Trek. The only time I can think of that occurring was Diane Duane's Rihannsu novels, but that was just a one time thing for what, 3 books I believe. And they don't seem to be releasing 12 novels a year like they were in the past, limiting the number of books further.
     
  15. Krupp

    Krupp Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Yeah I think the only question is whether we get a proper wrap. Tho as for the hopeful future, the recent TrekLit has seen billions of people killed and many worlds wiped out, so it hasn't been all plain sailing.

    OT tho, I rewatched the Okana episode from TNG the other night off the back of the book. Really wonderful to see the authors continuing to get road out of material from as far back as December 1988 (and further!). There's plenty of road left in her yet.
     
  16. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I'm more thinking of recent history and Captain Picard in the Enterprise. At this point the Borg invasion was several years ago. A tragic story. But I like where Captain Picard is currently in the novels. Still in command of the Enterprise and boldly moving forward. Collateral Damage ended on a hopeful note. And the crew of the Enterprise is more realistic as well, with a lot of new people and a few old ones (and their reasons for still being on board make sense).
     
  17. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    Me too, I hope we don't get a dark/depressing future like in "Logan"
     
  18. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since Voyager is in the past,will future novels connect to the prePicard Treklit, or to the Picard one?
     
  19. Damian

    Damian Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I can't help but get a bad feeling about Picard being doom and gloom. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like it's going to be Picard against the World. It seems lately the shows are about our hero vs. the mean, evil system.

    It'd be nice to have a show for once where the system was behind our character. It'd be nice if Picard had to do something or take care of something and Starfleet wasn't standing in the way. Where it maybe, you know, helped him succeed. I hope that's how things turn out anyway.

    I suspect "To Lose the Earth" will follow the existing Voyager continuity. This is a holdover from the last contract and has been years in the making (or writing). I think Kirsten Beyer will simply continue where she left off, and I'm hoping she'll tie up some of the major loose ends since I have a feeling this will be the last Voyager novel.
     
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  20. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

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    :scream::wah:
     
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