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TMP vs. ST'09: Comparing the 2 launch films

AFEK ESLCAFE W

AFEK ESLCAFE W

Lieutenant Commander
Newbie
Out of the 11 feature films released so far, TMP and ST'99 by far have the greatest production value showcasing films of epic scale.

If you had to compare both films in terms of overall quality, how would they match up in a side-by-side comparison?

1.) Epic Scale
2.) Visual F/X
3.) Cast
4.) Direction
5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk)
6.) Starship Design
7.) Uniforms
8.) Dialogue
9.) Preference
10.) Babe Factor
11.) Story
12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience
13.) Legacy
14.) Marketing Campaign
15.) Music
16.) Sets (Aesthetics)
17.) Main Villain
18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan
19.) Lighting and Cinematography
20.) Sound and Editting
21.) Action
22.) Drama
23.) Moral of the Story
24.) Overall Quality
25.) Etc.
 
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Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

I love that story ranks eleventh on the list. :lol:
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

BillJ said:
I love that story ranks eleventh on the list. :lol:
Click to expand...

Same goes for the thinking behind some Hollywood executives. :cool:



I thought up this list on the fly.

No way I am going to go back to re-order it in terms of preference.

You guys can do that on your own time. ;)



I made this list, because although I enjoyed the J.J. Abrams film more than TMP on a pure entertainment scale, TMP has that touch of cinematic aesthetic from a genius film auteur Robert Wise. Whereas the purely CGI special-effects from the J.J. Abrams film will date in a few years, TMP's F/X was created by real hands on technicians with visuals you rarely ever saw on film of such a magnitude save for films like 2001: A Space Odyssey. Perhaps I am too busy to view both films side-by-side for comparison, but in terms of preference it's hard for me to choose which of the 2 is superior.
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

What's ST'99? I assume you mean '09?
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) TMP wins
2.) 09 Wins
3.) hard to compare
4.) 09 Wins
5.) 09 Wins
6.) TMP, sorta
7.) 09 Wins
8.) 09 Wins
9.) 09 Wins
10.) 09 Wins
11.) 09 Wins
12.) 09 blows TMP away
13.) hard to compare
14.) 09 Wins
15.) TMP wins
16.) 09 Wins
17.) 09 Wins
18.) 09 Wins
19.) 09 Wins
20.) 09 Wins
21.) 09 Wins
22.) 09 Wins
23.) ZZZZ...
24.) 09 Wins
25.) ...
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) Epic Scale -- TMP
2.) Visual F/X -- 09 ... but there are 30 years of SFX improvements at work here.
3.) Cast -- TMP
4.) Direction -- TMP
5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk) -- 09
6.) Starship Design -- TMP
7.) Uniforms -- Those ugly little Starfleet delta prints? Even TMP jammies beat those.
8.) Dialogue -- 09
9.) Preference -- My Preference? TMP
10.) Babe Factor -- 09
11.) Story -- TMP
12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience -- 09
13.) Legacy -- I'm betting on TMP over 09, but I honestly can't say for sure.
14.) Marketing Campaign -- I'm not sure. I'll give this to 09, but marketing has changed almost as much as SFX
15.) Music -- TMP blows 09 out of the water.
16.) Sets (Aesthetics) -- TMP beats the bright light boutique.
17.) Main Villain -- TMP ... but I liked Nero.
18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan -- 09. TMP is no slouch, but blowing up Vulcan takes guts!
19.) Lighting and Cinematography -- TMP
20.) Sound and Editting -- 09
21.) Action -- 09 blows TMP away here, I'm afraid.
22.) Drama -- TMP has subtlety here in the growth of Kirk, Spock, and Decker.
23.) Moral of the Story -- TMP. 09 had no perceivable moral.
24.) Overall Quality -- TMP.
25.) Etc. ST09 is clearly going to have a bigger influence on Trek than TMP for at least a few years. I'll give this to 09.
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

I'm not sure I really need to over-analyze these two movies. Both rank as my two favourite ST movies - and my favourite movies of all time. Nostalgia probably makes me enjoy TMP just a little bit more, but nothing gave me a thrill as the new ST getting such consistent critical, public and box office acclaim. During the 80s and 90s, I spent a lot of time defending why I liked TMP over the other ST movies coming out.

I was a different person in 1979, and both films are products of their times. The new movie managed to have touchstones with all the things I loved about TMP - and it also managed to get rid of "the boring bits" which TMP loathers used to complain so bitterly about.
 
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Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

AFEK ESLCAFE W said:
Out of the 11 feature films released so far, TMP and ST'99 by far have the greatest production value showcasing films of epic scale.

If you had to compare both films in terms of overall quality, how would they match up in a side-by-side comparison?

1.) Epic Scale
2.) Visual F/X
3.) Cast
4.) Direction
5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk)
6.) Starship Design
7.) Uniforms
8.) Dialogue
9.) Preference
10.) Babe Factor
11.) Story
12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience
13.) Legacy
14.) Marketing Campaign
15.) Music
16.) Sets (Aesthetics)
17.) Main Villain
18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan
19.) Lighting and Cinematography
20.) Sound and Editting
21.) Action
22.) Drama
23.) Moral of the Story
24.) Overall Quality
25.) Etc.
Click to expand...

1. TMP
2. 09 by modern standards; comparing them by the standards of their respective times, it's a draw
3. 09
4. 09
5. 09
6. Tie
7. 09
8. 09
9. 09
10. Tie
11. 09
12. 09
13. Well, TMP obviously, but you can hardly compare a 2 year old movie with a 32 year old one.
14. I can't remember the campaign for TMP but kudos to 09 for making the achingly unhip Trek franchise popular.
15. Tie
16. 09. I never cared for the muted look of TMP.
17. 09. V'ger, Smeeger.
18. TMP, oddly enough; I did like the view we got of Vulcan in those short scenes.
19. Tie
20, Sound - a draw. But for editing, 09 beats TMP's slow pace
21. 09
22. 09
23. Tie
24. 09
25. Not sure what you mean
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) TMP
2 - 24.) Star Trek 09
25.) TMP to be nice.
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) Epic Scale - TMP. Klingon space, a Starfleet border outpost, and a warp-traveling cloud that's (in the original version) bigger than the solar system, plus a closeup tour of a spacecraft larger than Manhattan. '09 hops between two planets we've seen and a nearby iceball.

2.) Visual F/X - '09 in overall quality simply because it's 30 years later; but I still say TMP uses its effects for emotional storytelling purposes in a way that '09 doesn't. Kirk's Enterprise tour, and the bridge crew's reactions inside the cloud/V'Ger, are there to tell us about them as people encountering (a) an old love or (b) something overwhelming.

3.) Cast - The acting's better in '09 overall, even if I have more affection for TMP's cast.

4.) Direction - Probably '09, in that it's punchier.

5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk) - Collins; he portrays a character I find far more complex and likable.

6.) Starship Design - TMP. The 1701 refit is my favorite, and V'Ger is believably alien (we think). nu1701 strikes me as more ornamental than functional.

7.) Uniforms - I've always liked the TMP uniforms, finding them more believable than most Trek outfits.

8.) Dialogue - TMP's smarter, but '09's punchier, so take your pick.

9.) Preference - For what? I personally prefer TMP.

10.) Babe Factor - Although '09 has more women in it, TMP puts Ilia front and center, in the plot and even the original poster.

11.) Story - TMP is structured and smart. '09 is structured.

12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience - '09, obviously.

13.) Legacy - Well, most people seemed not to like TMP and to like '09.

14.) Marketing Campaign - Both were big. I preferred TMP's (sf art posters, Klingon Happy Meals), but that's irrelevant.

15.) Music - TMP. Jerry Goldsmith.

16.) Sets (Aesthetics) - TMP. Looks realer to me.

17.) Main Villain - TMP, in that it doesn't *have* a villain. V'Ger is a problem, not a villain; he's not trying to "defeat" them.

18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan - TMP. Kolinahr!

19.) Lighting and Cinematography - '09.

20.) Sound and Editting - Got me.

21.) Action - '09.

22.) Drama - TMP. It's subtle, but it's there for Kirk, Spock, Decker.

23.) Moral of the Story - TMP hands down, in the original version. "We all create God in our own image." And the Director's Edition cut that out!

24.) Overall Quality - TMP for me, but I recognize that '09 is a more polished film.

25.) Etc. - TMP is a <i>science fiction film</i>, not an action thriller in space. I miss that.
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) Epic Scale - The Motion Picture
2.) Visual F/X - Star Trek 2009
3.) Cast - The Motion Picture
4.) Direction - The Motion Picture
5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk) - Star Trek 2009
6.) Starship Design - The Motion Picture
7.) Uniforms - Toss-up, neither really do it for me.
8.) Dialogue - The Motion Picture, I was cool with Star Trek 2009 until they pulled 'transwarp beaming' out of their asses.
9.) Preference - The Motion Picture
10.) Babe Factor - The Motion Picture
11.) Story - The Motion Picture
12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience - Star Trek 2009
13.) Legacy - The Motion Picture
14.) Marketing Campaign - The Motion Picture
15.) Music - The Motion Picture
16.) Sets (Aesthetics) - Toss-up. They both worked for the story each film was telling.
17.) Main Villain - The Motion Picture, but Nero has a certain charm.
18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan - The Motion Picture
19.) Lighting and Cinematography -Star Trek 2009
20.) Sound and Editting - Star Trek 2009
21.) Action - Star Trek 2009
22.) Drama - The Motion Picture
23.) Moral of the Story - The Motion Picture
24.) Overall Quality - Toss-up, I think they both accomplished what they set out to accomplish.
25.) Etc. - Both films very much represent the time they were made in.
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) Epic Scale -- TMP
2.) Visual F/X -- 09 (30 years of improvements, plus the rush job on some of the TMP effects, make this an easy choice)
3.) Cast -- 09 (Easily the best and most prominent cast of a ST movie that's ever been assembled; TMP was mostly made up of TV actors or soon to be TV actors)
4.) Direction -- 09 (Wise's staging is often stilted)
5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk) -- Chris Pine (no contest)
6.) Starship Design -- TMP (I don't like the bloated nacelles on the new Enterprise)
7.) Uniforms -- 09 (the TMP pajamas are some of the worst costumes designed for ST)
8.) Dialogue -- 09
9.) Preference -- 09
10.) Babe Factor -- 09
11.) Story -- 09 (simple, but not a re-tread of a previous episode with a weak third act)
12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience -- 09
13.) Legacy -- Too soon to tell, although the legacy of TMP isn't much outside of hard core fan circles.
14.) Marketing Campaign -- No preference.
15.) Music -- TMP (the benchmark of all ST scores)
16.) Sets (Aesthetics) -- No preference
17.) Main Villain -- No preference
18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan -- 09
19.) Lighting and Cinematography -- 09 (I can't stand the pastel color schemes in TMP, nor the excessive use of split-diopter photography)
20.) Sound and Editting - 09 (rather than being rushed into theaters like TMP, they had an extra six months to refine things, which included the help of Ben Burtt, and it shows)
21.) Action -- 09 (duh)
22.) Drama -- 09
23.) Moral of the Story -- No preference
24.) Overall Quality -- 09
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

FredH said:
23.) Moral of the Story - TMP hands down, in the original version. "We all create God in our own image." And the Director's Edition cut that out!
Click to expand...
Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I thought that line only appeared in the Special Longer Version, not the original theatrical cut.
 
Re: TMP vs. ST'99: Comparing the 2 launch films

1.) Epic Scale TMP
2.) Visual F/X TMP
3.) Cast TMP
4.) Direction TMP
5.) Stephen Collins (Willard Decker) vs. Chris Pine (James T. Kirk) Who cares?
6.) Starship Design TMP
7.) Uniforms ST09
8.) Dialogue ST09
9.) Preference TMP
10.) Babe Factor ST09
11.) Story TMP
12.) Pull with the Mainstream Audience ST09
13.) Legacy TMP
14.) Marketing Campaign ST09
15.) Music TMP x 1000
16.) Sets (Aesthetics) ST09
17.) Main Villain ST09
18.) Portrayal of Vulcans, Vulcan culture, and the planet Vulcan TMP
19.) Lighting and Cinematography TMP x10000
20.) Sound and Editting ST09
21.) Action ST09
22.) Drama ST09
23.) Moral of the Story TMP wins by default.
24.) Overall Quality TMP
25.) Etc. TMP
 
Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong-but I thought the majority of movies were made by the Paramount TV Division, ala the 80s sequels primarily talking about here? STTMP and ST (2009) were exceptions to the rule so no wonder they had good production values.
 
Only TWOK was developed initially by the Paramount television division in what was probably a dodge to keep costs down. Three days into production it was "upgraded" to theatrical status, but by then everyone was under contract and a lot of union work had been done at TV rates. :lol:
 
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