TMP Seems more "Futuristic" Then "Star Trek '09"

[Maurice]

The TMP Klingon bridge was cut up and changed for TWOK. The superstructure became the torpedo bay, instantly recognizable because of the giant "shock absorbers". It probably stood in the same place because the Klingon bridge had a sunken area in front of the Captain which corresponds with the torpedo run in TWOK. They probably build the set over a pit in one of the stages to allow this.

The walls from the back room of the Klingon bridge was turned into the "radiation room" that Spock croaked in, as is apparent front the trapezoidal Klingon style screens in that room.


As Klingon structure in TMP
As torpedo bay stucture in TWOK (note the curved railing as the back)

Back room walls of Klingon bridge in TMP (note the railing)
Repurposed as radiation room in TWOK

 

[RAMA]

I cant believe this thread is still going, the premise is so patently ridiculous.

RAMA

 

[Stardate]

Well i agree with this the premise.TMP does look somewhat futuristic compare to 09. Mainly because it tries to take the syfy part more seriuosly then 09. Also found how people(humans) behaved in the future a lot better in TMP then people in 09. They weren't going into bar brawls, Driving antic car over a cliff or Vulcan's bullies. I found how people behave in 09 childish and immature and i think humans would have grown little more then this in the future.

 

[F. King Daniel]

People haven't changed in the past 2,000+ years. I doubt the next 300 will make a difference.

You never got a glimpse of life outside of Starfeet in TMP (Klingon intro aside). The same difference between STXI and TMP's "humanity" can be observed today by going from an office complex to a bar and to a school.

 

[Stardate]

You dont know that.Just look how the world has chanced in the past 100 years. Human IQ are getting higher every generations and the potential for human engineering to weed out undesirable traits would defiantly be explored plus the fact i would think they would have learn something from the Vulcans.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Human IQ are getting higher every generations

Can you cite any data to support this idea?

 

[JarodRussell]

People haven't changed in the past 2,000+ years. I doubt the next 300 will make a difference.

Seriously? People that lived 2000 years ago were just like us today?

 

[Stardate]

when i think about it No. Perhaps a wishful thinking on my part.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Human IQ are getting higher every generations

Can you cite any data to support this idea?

when i think about it No. Perhaps a wishful thinking on my part.

There is something called the Flynn effect. Read it all before you get excited.

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), originally developed in 1949, was updated in 1974 and 1991. The revised versions are standardized to 100 using new standardization samples. In ordinary use IQ tests are scored with respect to those standardization samples. The only way to compare the difficulty of two versions of a test is to conduct a separate study in which the same subjects take both versions. Doing so confirms IQ gains over time. The average rate of increase seems to be about three IQ points per decade in the US on tests such as the WISC.

Attempted explanations have included improved nutrition, a trend toward smaller families, better education, greater environmental complexity, and heterosis (the occurrence of genetically superior offspring from mixing the genes of its parents).[17] Another proposition is the gradual spread of test-taking skills.[5] The Flynn effect has been too rapid for genetic selection to be the cause.[18]

Jon Martin Sundet and colleagues (2004) examined scores on intelligence tests given to Norwegian conscripts between the 1950s and 2002. They found that the increase of scores of general intelligence stopped after the mid-1990s and declined in numerical reasoning sub-tests.[33]

In Australia, 6–11 year olds IQ, as measured by the Colored Progressive Matrices, has shown no increase from 1975–2003.[35]

In the United Kingdom, a study by Flynn (2009) found that tests carried out in 1980 and again in 2008 show that the IQ score of an average 14-year-old dropped by more than two points over the period. For the upper half of the results the performance was even worse. Average IQ scores declined by six points.

If there have been declines in national IQs this may have causes other than those proposed above. Researchers have warned that constantly greater exposure to industrial chemicals proven to damage the nervous system, especially in children, in industrialized nations may be responsible for a "silent pandemic" of brain development disorders.[40]

For all scientists presently know, the change in IQ scores over time could be due to anything, from a spread in test taking skills, whose spread initially improved scores, but that now has spread as far as it can, to something in the water, to something else altogether. Furthermore, it's interesting that the Flynn effect has occurred too rapidly for genetic selection to be the cause, because this means that the Flynn effect does not support the idea that humans are evolving into a species with greater intelligence.

Furthermore, it's good to keep in mind that whether a change in IQ scores reflects a change in anything, other than a skill set applied to take an IQ test, is itself a topic of ongoing debate in the scientific community; IQ scores are only one of many factors that predict social outcomes such as income.

The entire subject is controversial, and scientific viewpoints are likely to change even in the next decade as more data is uncovered.

 

[Doug Otte]

You dont know that.Just look how the world has chanced in the past 100 years. Human IQ are getting higher every generations and the potential for human engineering to weed out undesirable traits would defiantly be explored plus the fact i would think they would have learn something from the Vulcans.

...and yet we can't teach people grammar...


In my youth, I too thought that humanity was gradually advancing. In areas of technology, we are.

However, in the areas of religion, pettiness, and violence, we aren't advancing one bit.

Doug

 

[Doug Otte]

I believe Wise mentioned in interviews that it was the films of Welles (which use deep focus) where he fell in love with the effect of having the entire frame -- from foreground to the deep background -- in focus. In Citizen Kane the effect was accomplished all sorts of ways, including trick photography using models, rear-projection, and other means. Mainly, however, it's accomplished by having a ton of light, which is very time consuming and expensive.

A split-dipoter is an easier way to at least approximate the effect, but it doesn't look as nearly as good to my eyes (and is why I can't stand much of the photography in TMP). It's a better effect when it is motivated (in, for example, Oliver Stone's Talk Radio) than not.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,
Doug

 

[JarodRussell]

However, in the areas of religion, pettiness, and violence, we aren't advancing one bit.

That's a very simplified view that isn't true. Catholics are no longer burning witches, slavery got banished in most parts of the world, for example.

 

[number6]

I cant believe this thread is still going, the premise is so patently ridiculous.

RAMA

Agreed. This has nothing to do with what looks more "futuristic." Of course people who didn't like ST09 won't think it's more "futuristic" than TMP.

Well i agree with this the premise.TMP does look somewhat futuristic compare to 09. Mainly because it tries to take the syfy part more seriuosly then 09. Also found how people(humans) behaved in the future a lot better in TMP then people in 09. They weren't going into bar brawls, Driving antic car over a cliff or Vulcan's bullies. I found how people behave in 09 childish and immature and i think humans would have grown little more then this in the future.

Case in point.
Do we really know that the people who wrote and produced ST09 aren't taking the "syfi part more seriously." That is the silliest thing I've heard. And we know this how? Did you ask them?


Kirk got into plenty of brawls in TOS, so who's to say that he didn't when he was a brash 20 year old. Do any of you remember what you were like in college?? I remember my 20s. That argument is beyond silly.


The Vulcan bully sequence was lifted almost note-for-note from an episode of TAS called "Yesteryear," written by DC Fontana. That's DC Fontana. Ever hear of her? Are you going to tell me that she doesn't know how Star Trek characters are supposed to behave?

Again this argument has nothing to do with what looks futuristic. If you retitled the thread "Which film do you prefer, TMP or ST09?" The posts would be identical and similarly misguided.

 

[maxleelv]

ST 09 is the first trek movie that was actually a MOVIE as opposed to a warmed over two-part TV episode or a lame TV move. Excellent effects, actors and story. They actually dealt with big issues and showed that people have flaws as well as a heroic side.

Most of the casts of previous Trek would be lucky to be on the dinner theater circut if they didn't have Trek to fall back on.

 

[Vance]

Sorry, Max, but I still have to put TWOK as the best movie overall. Can't complain about any of the effects, story, or actors in that one. While it's easy to pick apart details in all the other movies, TWOK still holds up today. Really, it's the only Trek movie to survive the test of time.

I don't think that NuTrek will hold up over the years. This isn't to say that further movies won't do well or that they won't be good, but that elements in the movie are already pretty heavily dated, such as the 'shakey-cam' and 'lens-flare' overdrive we see.

Chris Pine's overall look is very much the current fashion trend of 'manboi hero', sculpted, pretty, and not physically intimidating. (This isn't to disparage him too much, that is the current market demand, so milk it, Chris!) Uhura's look is very 2011's chique and probably won't age well. (They MAKE girls that skinny? How do they keep from breaking?!)

The storyline too is very Millenial, with the 'hero getting all the breaks because he's innately special'. This isn't the James Kirk archetype, or even the Luke Skywalker archetype. This is, again, the "Neo" archetype of the current times, the "One" who has been ordained by plot to have everything go right.

Ten, fifteen, twenty years from now will NuTrek really look like it's 'future-tech'? Nah, not really. It doesn't really pull it off now. TMP has moments where it does, but, as I admitted, a lot of it did look pretty 1970s in retrospect. TWOK, by keeping to more tried-and-true archetypes, holds up the best in look, story, and feel.

I do find it hilarious that there are people here who need to demonize the 'aged looks' and 'bad acting' of the original series, while promoting and worshipping a movie that was a huge-ass homage to it.

 

[maxleelv]

It's a good thing all the cardboard scenery was only seen on 1960's era TV sets otherwise you'd see where Shatner had been chewing it.

About all that new Trek should borrow from the old is:
- Kirk is a rebel who doesn't follow orders and shows that his superiors are idiots 99% of the time.
- Kirk ALWAYS get the girl (Hopefully they'll correct this one flaw in the next movie)
- Spock raises his eyebrow and says Fascinating.
- Spock uses logic and is proven wrong.
- McCoy says something folksy and looks worried about stuff.
- Uhura says "hailing frequencies open" and admits to being frightened.
- Sulu has a new hobby (maybe).
- Chekov gets excited and claims stuff is from Russia.

That's about it. Toss the rest in the bin.

 

[Warped9]

It's a good thing all the cardboard scenery was only seen on 1960's era TV sets otherwise you'd see where Shatner had been chewing it.

About all that new Trek should borrow from the old is:
- Kirk is a rebel who doesn't follow orders and shows that his superiors are idiots 99% of the time.
- Kirk ALWAYS get the girl (Hopefully they'll correct this one flaw in the next movie)
- Spock raises his eyebrow and says Fascinating.
- Spock uses logic and is proven wrong.
- McCoy says something folksy and looks worried about stuff.
- Uhura says "hailing frequencies open" and admits to being frightened.
- Sulu has a new hobby (maybe).
- Chekov gets excited and claims stuff is from Russia.

That's about it. Toss the rest in the bin.

Hmm... Guess you've never actually watched the series and really paid attention to what's actually happening onscreen.

 

[Vance]

Max, coming on the TOS-TNG themed forums to flame the shows is not going to endear you to anyone, particularly when it's clear you've never really watched them.

 

[maxleelv]

I've watched all of them from the very first broadcast. Seen every shows the night it premiered. Seen all the movies.

Star Trek got weighed down with the barnacles of continuity and "canon" . It's time to strip it down to it's essence and do it anew.

 

[Anduril]

Didn't they do that two years ago?