TMP Seems more "Futuristic" Then "Star Trek '09"

[BlobVanDam]

Quite frankly...they are right, you are wrong...

Why? Well firstly, the reason why you saw so much tight clothes on futuristic movies is that EVERY futurist or consultant recommended to moviemakers of the day that such clothes would be worn in the future, and unlike the material available today of the type, it would even be comfortable. Now jump ahead to the year 2000 or so, Under Armor and similar apparel has become more popular(I wore it before it became "trendy"), eventually I see a whole new category of casual clothing that will be...well tight..

RAMA

With obesity rates getting inexorably higher I seriously doubt that the average person will feel comfortable putting every fold of their grotesque, bloated, lumpy bodies on display.

The fit, young, attractive people, maybe. The average person? No. Although maybe that's wishful thinking.

We're talking about a fictional future though, where they don't seem to have problems like obesity. And don't forget that in the case of Trek, we're talking about Starfleet, so they're all fit and trained.
Unless we're talking about the TOS movies, in which case scrap that assertion

 

[antiquityscion]

The tendency of some more recent science fiction to ignore the visual conventions of "futuristic" costuming design is probably in part a kind of "future-proofing" reaction against how ridiculous-looking such outfits look a few years after a movie or TV show is made. What William Ware Theiss called "choosing the lies you're going to tell the audience" is probably a little less necessary as the audience has grown more sophisticated.

I agree, and the fact that a lot of shows want the audience to better identify with the characters and make the story more real, so they dress them in more familiar clothing (IE Battlestar Galactica, Dr Who, Stargate...pick a spin off)

And no, there is never going to be an overall trend toward very tight clothing except occasionally in youth fashions. The population at large is not becoming more svelte or fit as generations pass to the extent that they'll accept clothing that doesn't give them any help in disguising their shortcomings. :lol;

 

[beamMe]

I generally agree with you in that there's a sensibility about TMP that makes it feel futuristic. ST09 just looks like a juvenile comic book.

Both reflect the aesthetic trends of the time they were created in.
Neither one is more futuristic than the other.

 

[Procutus]

But CGI enhancement aside, when it comes to exterior shots, I think the refit TMP enterprise does look more "futuristic" than the 2009 enterprise, since it has smaller nacelles that aren't as big and the 2009 version has an actual dish in the front, but that is a matter of opinion.

http://screenrant.com/new-star-trek-movie-uss-enterprise-vic-4205/

I find myself agreeing with various aspects of all that's been said in the thread above. I'm with the OP on this overall; despite being made at the end of 70s, ST:TMP still feels more a well-thought out version of the future to me than does ST2009. Yes, the Abramsverse does have a very realistic and 'hard' feel to it, due to the amount of location filming that was done. But does it look like what things will likely to appear as 247 years from now? Unlikely, IMO.

The bridge aside, which in J.J.'s movie does come across as uber-modern and futuristic, the rest of the ship sets seem like what they are... real places in our world that were dressed up a tiny bit to be made to look like the interior of the ship. I'm sorry, but Engineering still looks like a brewery to me everytime I watch the movie. I can't view it as any other way.

I'm an old-time trekker as well, which probably explains a lot of my visual preferences here. The E from TMP still is my favorite design; I'm not overly keen on the nacelles on the Abrams ship.

And it's not to say that their choices of design for the 2009 movie are bad; I'd just prefer to see a few more things that don't look like they're early 21st century structures.

On that note, I am curious to see what changes might be made for the 2012 movie.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

So in 2019 everyone's gonna have a mohawk wearing 1940s inspired clothes or be Chinese...

Fashion trends being what they are, who's to say? I'm watching kids wear hip-huggers these days, some 40 years after that fashion was introduced.

But the advertising, the billboards, even the unlikely flying cars don't look impossible for that year. By comparison, Chekov's targeting grid looks more like video game of 1982 than a 23rd century targeting display.

And btw 20% of the people on Earth ARE Chinese.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Theiss made the point that blue jeans and rawhide accoutrements , as well as facial hair on men, would have seemed anachronistic in a futuristic film made in the 1940s - such things represented the American frontier of nearly a century before. Yet in the 1960s these things became commonplace again.

The only thing about ST09 that looks like a "comic book" is, in fact, dressing the characters in bright red, gold and blue outfits - but hey, that's a matter of being faithful to TOS, right?

 

[Ghrakh]

JJTrek at least looks current

And that's about all one can say.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Star Trek 09 is actually the first time that I could imagine myself "at home" in the Trekverse. It is both futuristic and contemporary all at once and seems a fairly reasonable projection from now - which is often true of scifi, it being the visual or storytelling product of the time in which is was made.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

JJTrek at least looks current

And that's about all one can say.

And far more than one can say for most of the old stuff.

The post-TMP TOS-based movies are really some of the worst stuff in terms of the costuming. Fletcher's color choices were particularly bizarre (yes, I know he had a rationalization for them which he explained) and the cut and accessorizing of most things was thoroughly 80s. The "monster maroon" outfits in particular that fandom is so impressed with have to be some of the most ugly and impractical excuses for duty uniforms ever conceived for a skiffy movie. Talk about "retro style..."

Gluing vacuum-formed videocassette and paint trays to the walls of the Enterprise sets was not Meyer's finest moment either.

 

[SchwEnt]

JJTrek at least looks current

And that's about all one can say.

And far more than one can say for most of the old stuff.

The post-TMP TOS-based movies are really some of the worst stuff in terms of the costuming. Fletcher's color choices were particularly bizarre (yes, I know he had a rationalization for them which he explained) and the cut and accessorizing of most things was thoroughly 80s. The "monster maroon" outfits in particular that fandom is so impressed with have to be some of the most ugly and impractical excuses for duty uniforms ever conceived for a skiffy movie. Talk about "retro style..."

Gluing vacuum-formed videocassette and paint trays to the walls of the Enterprise sets was not Meyer's finest moment either.

^^^And putting handheld barcode scanners on the helm of the Enterprise isn't a highpoint for JJ, either.

 

[beamMe]

And that's about all one can say.

And far more than one can say for most of the old stuff.

The post-TMP TOS-based movies are really some of the worst stuff in terms of the costuming. Fletcher's color choices were particularly bizarre (yes, I know he had a rationalization for them which he explained) and the cut and accessorizing of most things was thoroughly 80s. The "monster maroon" outfits in particular that fandom is so impressed with have to be some of the most ugly and impractical excuses for duty uniforms ever conceived for a skiffy movie. Talk about "retro style..."

Gluing vacuum-formed videocassette and paint trays to the walls of the Enterprise sets was not Meyer's finest moment either.

^^^And putting handheld barcode scanners on the helm of the Enterprise isn't a highpoint for JJ, either.

Most people don't spend hours looking at screenshots or freeze-frame the DVDs or BRs; they won't notice these things.
Even though I knew beforehand those barcode scanners where there, I didn't notice them when I watched the film - the same goes for the videocassettes and paint trays.

 

[Merky]

Looking like the future? And apparently this probe was supposed to be from the early 2000s:

and this is how we were supposed to be dressing in the early 2000s:

The future is based on our perceptions of what it should be due to our own present technological advancements. According to TOS, we were supposed to be on the moon by the 90s and sending manned missions to Saturn by like the 2000s. TMP screamed 70s, the next 5 movies screamed 80s, and VII - X screamed 90s. XI screams 2000s. Bright, flat, touch screen, etc etc.

TMP is just dated. It simply looks pretty cause it had double the production value than like the other movies combined.

 

[beamMe]

TMP is just dated. It simply looks pretty cause it had double the production value than like the other movies combined.

Whatever that is supposed to mean. ('double the production value'... because Phase II was folded into that movie?)

 

[Merky]

TMP is just dated. It simply looks pretty cause it had double the production value than like the other movies combined.

Whatever that is supposed to mean. ('double the production value'... because Phase II was folded into that movie?)

TMP: 46 mil
TWOK: 11 mil
TSFS: 16 mil
TVH: 23 mil
TFF: ??
TUC: 27 mil estimated

I took TMP double of what it took to make TWOK and TSFS combined. TVH was made for 23 mil, but obviously the movie is set in 1986 so we can forgo that one ... there's no budget released that i can find for TFF but we can assume it was a little bit more considering the success of TVH and the pattern of good movie - more money next movie. TUC was at 27, but apparently that was a tight budget at the time... and considering its 12 years after TMP we could inflate TMP for the year 1991: 86 mil

Sooooo yeah, TMP was double the production costs for all the other movies and with a higher production value looked bigger, badder, and prettier and that's why some thing it looks more futuristic. Even if they folded Phase II into TMP, that would have made things cheaper by reusing what was already created not more expensive. What's so hard to understand that?

 

[ShatnersToupee]

TMP got a lot of criticism for how bland things were. But I always liked thought it was the most believable of all the Star Trek sets. What I really couldn't stand is when they cheaped out on the look of things. Take Herman Zimmerman's work on SFF and TUC. He put a bunch of TVs on the wall and had a different feed for each. Well, that's what I see at my local Best Buy. At least the bridge stations on TMP looked specific. Not just in terms of the displays, but also the layout. The science station has counter space on 3 sides which reflects how much the science officer has to look at. Then you have the tactical station which looks a lot different, again reflecting what someone at that station would need to see.

The TNG era bothered me so much. While it's was nice to see touch screens instead of push buttons, I despised all the colors. Is this a kid's show? Which brings us to Star Trek (2009). The bridge looks like an Apple store, Engineering looks like something from the 20th century, and the uniforms, while an obvious homage to TOS, still look ridiculous.

 

[scotpens]

According to TOS, we were supposed to be on the moon by the 90s . . .

Well, we did land on the moon in 1969. The TOS ep “Tomorrow is Yesterday” mentions the first manned moon mission taking place in the late 1960s. Of course, a base or permanent human presence on the moon is a different story.

 

[Merky]

According to TOS, we were supposed to be on the moon by the 90s . . .

Well, we did land on the moon in 1969. The TOS ep “Tomorrow is Yesterday” mentions the first manned moon mission taking place in the late 1960s. Of course, a base or permanent human presence on the moon is a different story.

Yes, yes, yes. I mean permanent colonization. But looking beyond that, apparently in the 90s we've developed space ships with artificial gravity and mastered suspended animation in Space Seed.

Point being made, our depictions of the future is based upon what we know now and like how some have said in this thread, it'll change for this movie as well years later as technology advances. The basic principles presented in ST are still "futuristic" but it is the look that dates it.

 

[BillJ]

TMP is just dated. It simply looks pretty cause it had double the production value than like the other movies combined.

Whatever that is supposed to mean. ('double the production value'... because Phase II was folded into that movie?)

TMP: 46 mil
TWOK: 11 mil
TSFS: 16 mil
TVH: 23 mil
TFF: ??
TUC: 27 mil estimated

To be fair... The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock did not have to design and build new Enterprise models and sets. They were paid for out of The Motion Picture budget.

 

[Anduril]

and the uniforms, while an obvious homage to TOS, still look ridiculous.

Can't please everyone can we?

 

[Merky]

Whatever that is supposed to mean. ('double the production value'... because Phase II was folded into that movie?)

TMP: 46 mil
TWOK: 11 mil
TSFS: 16 mil
TVH: 23 mil
TFF: ??
TUC: 27 mil estimated

To be fair... The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock did not have to design and build new Enterprise models and sets. They were paid for out of The Motion Picture budget.

It still does not negate the fact that TWOK and TSFS' budgets were slashed in half. They ended up recycling and reusing things to compensate for the lack of budget which -- had they had the money -- probably could have been able to do a lot of redesigns, snazzier set pieces, better effects, etc etc.

When they made TMP, they didn't all sit at the table and plan out 5 additional movies on the spot. It just happened. Everyone came into TMP as if it was a one shot deal, all the other movies were just flukes. TMP's budget was planned for TMP, not for for the other movies.