TMP never happened

[A beaker full of death]

On a special on the History Channel, Mike Westmore just took credit for creating the "modern" Klingon look. He observed that on TOS they just used "brown makeup," and then said he created the ridged forehead look for the first modern Klingon -- Worf.

I knew he was creatively bankrupt; I didn't know he was morally bankrupt.

 

[Neopeius]

Is moral indignation your default emotion?

Westmore created the "modern" Klingon. TMP and other early movies are sort of transitional forms with much less pronounced ridges, at least according to him. He says his Klingons are a complete redesign. Based on dinosaur vertebrae to hear him tell it.

So I don't think his words have much hyperbole to them.

 

[ancient]

A beaker full of death said:
On a special on the History Channel, Mike Westmore just took credit for creating the "modern" Klingon look. He observed that on TOS they just used "brown makeup," and then said he created the ridged forehead look for the first modern Klingon -- Worf.

I knew he was creatively bankrupt;

I didn't know he was morally bankrupt.

Worf's head is significantly different from the TMP Klingons. I mean, look at the Klingons in TUC or TFF. The klingons got redesigned several times. Hell, Worf got redesigned after season 2 of TNG. Those aren't the same ridges.

I knew he was creatively bankrupt

Poor him.

 

[Harvey]

Seems a little disengenuine on Westmore's part, but considering the OP's tone, this is probably just taken way out of context to take yet another swipe at modern Trek. Lame.

 

[Therin of Andor]

A beaker full of death said:
then said he created the ridged forehead look for the first modern Klingon -- Worf.

Westmore perfected a latex makeup for Klingons (and Ferengi and other aliens) that could be pre-painted and re-used many times. Fred B. Phillips' TMP Klingons had over-the-head extensions of the vertebrae. The appliances only had to last a few days of filming.

James L. McCoy led a team on ST III who designed individualized forehead bumps for their film's Klingons.

Michael Westmore experimented with all those ideas to redefine "the look" and to create more permanent appliances, to allow Michael Dorn to become a regular Klingon cast member with minimal time in the makeup chair.

In the modern media world of the "sound bite", Westmore may have said all that and more, but got edited down to the words you heard. Give him a break.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Hirogen Alpha said:
Seems a little disengenuine on Westmore's part, but considering the OP's tone, this is probably just taken way out of context to take yet another swipe at modern Trek. Lame.

No, it wasn't taken out of context (by me) at all. I have no need to swipe at modern Trek. It can lay there genital warts and all for all to see like a $12 whore just fine without me.

Therin of Andor said:

In the modern media world of the "sound bite", Westmore may have said all that and more, but got edited down to the words you heard. Give him a break.

Now that may be. Hadn't occurred to me.

 

[Saxman1]

I'm with Therin - I think Westmore was edited. I took "modern" to mean TNG and forward....

 

[USS Mariner]

Both shows were full of shit, both content and editing wise (I'm sure the latter is the case, though we don't know the questions Westmore was asked.)

Are you surprised?

 

[Kryton]

I was surprised an organization with, generally, more credibility like The History Channel is supposed to have, did such a crappy job on these shows.

 

[Shatmandu]

Good. That movie was fucking booooor-ring!

Joe, the motion picture

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Nope. The OP is right. Unless there is major editting going on, Westmore is taking credit for something he did not do. The Klingon look in TMP (the best of the Trek movies--sorry, Joe) was based on human vertebrae. It was redesigned in TSFS to make the Klingons look more individualized but it was a refinement of that initial look (carried over from GR's failed pilot "Planet Earth"), not a new invention. While there are some differences between the look of Kruge, Maltz and Torg and Worf, Duras and Gowron (that the makeup now includes the nose, say), it hardly is enough for Westmore to claim to have invented anything. (Unless he did the make-up for TSFS. Did he? I honestly don't know.)

Considering how, with very few exceptions, Westmores approach to aliens in Trek is "let's fuck with the forehead," I don't think "creative bankruptcy" is hyperbole.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Brutal Strudel said:
While there are some differences between the look of Kruge, Maltz and Torg and Worf, Duras and Gowron (that the makeup now includes the nose, say), it hardly is enough for Westmore to claim to have invented anything.

As I said earlier, Michael Westmore experimented with all those ideas to redefine "the look" and to create a more permanent, pre-painted, reusable appliance, which allowed Michael Dorn to become a regular Klingon cast member with minimal time in the makeup chair. Ditto Armin Shimerman as Quark in DS9.

The ST III Klingon foreheads were disposable, thin, unpainted, latex baldcaps with bumps on them. They had a limited use, like TOS Vulcan ear tips. Then more had to be made from the original moulds.

 

[Magic_Al]

Westmore deserves credit for re-engineering the makeup to make it more practical but it would be ridiculous to say he invented the look. The differences in Klingon appearance between TSFS and TNG are very subtle and overwhelmed by the differences individual actors brought.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Given that Westmore has no history of unfairly claiming credit for things that predate him - and are, in fact, really trivial as technical accomplishments - it's entirely reasonable to assume that the remark is being misrepresented. But hey, why let little things like truth or reason interfere with our fannish ranting, eh?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Yes, why? Why let respect for the work of others and historical accuracy interfere with our fannish apologistics, eh?

The context of the quote suggests pretty clearly that Westmore is spinning a technical refinement (which it clearly was) as a creative breakthrough (which it surely wasn't) and yet Beaker is the asshole for calling foul?

Dismissing the opposition as fannish on the TrekBBS is a mug's game, wouldn't you say?

(Love those emoticons!)

 

[CaptainJon]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought two things.

1) Someone has gone off their rocker and is pushing for TMP to be "decanonized".

2) OP was theorizing about what would have happened to Trek if TMP never happened.

My bad.

 

[Joker]

I was just happy to see beaker again.

 

[Franklin]

It might have cleared things up if he'd said he was creating them from how Roddenberry originally envisioned Klingons. That is, how they might have looked if the TOS budget had allowed it.
Instead, as his statement is broadacast, it sounds like the idea for the look was post-TOS. And, for a non-fan watching (and would a non-fan have watched this show?) even post-motion pictures.
As his quotes are broadcast (choosing my words carefully) he's taking (getting) way too much credit.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Brutal Strudel said:
The context of the quote suggests pretty clearly that Westmore is spinning ...

The quote?

Do you have a quote? I haven't seen a quote.

 

[jayrath]

As much as I sympathize with beaker's views, this seems like a movie thread, and not TOS.