Yep, his first was in 1973. It wasn't widely known in 1979, of course, but still makes it a little creepy in retrospect.
TMP is the best film. It is not 'tedious' at all
- Thread starter Spock's Eyebrow
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Yep, his first was in 1973. It wasn't widely known in 1979, of course, but still makes it a little creepy in retrospect.
Look on the "bright" side. Kirk was at odds with him during the movie and he left the ship, never to return.
It would've been a worse scenario if Phase II had come to fruition, Stephen Collins had still been cast as Decker, and then if Decker replaced Kirk if William Shatner left the show, which could've happened. That would've ended up tanking an entire series in retrospect.
He would've been the main lead of a Star Trek series that could've run through the late-'70s and early-'80s instead of just a guest-character in one movie.
It would've been a worse scenario if Phase II had come to fruition, Stephen Collins had still been cast as Decker, and then if Decker replaced Kirk if William Shatner left the show, which could've happened. That would've ended up tanking an entire series in retrospect.
He would've been the main lead of a Star Trek series that could've run through the late-'70s and early-'80s instead of just a guest-character in one movie.
Unlikely at best. Stephen Collins was cast by Robert Wise, not by anyone involved with the planned Phase II series, and Collins said in 2001 interviews promoting the Director's Cut of TMP that it's unlikely that he would've been interested in a regular television role at the time, as he was trying to get his feature film career off the ground. (Obviously, he'd changed his mind by the time Tales of the Gold Monkey rolled around in 1982.)
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I will say that a number of aspects of the film that I consider suboptimal are mitigated to some degree when its experienced on the big screen versus my home viewing conditions. I got to see the film in a theater last year and was frankly pleasantly surprised by how much it was an improved experience.
I guess it's legitimate to ask whether the mitigated issues are then innate to the film or exist outside of it, but I'm content to say that TMP is a film essentially designed to be seen in the theater.
I guess it's legitimate to ask whether the mitigated issues are then innate to the film or exist outside of it, but I'm content to say that TMP is a film essentially designed to be seen in the theater.
I'd go with "interesting failure", but okay.
The best I can say is it's a middling script held together by one of the all-time great filmmakers during a wholly untenable situation.
It's the most realistic.
Star Trek, post-Moon landings.
There's a verisimilitude to TMP that most other Trek lacks.
I find that compelling.
The following sequels kinda went back to action adventure in space, but TMP genuinely seems like, it's making an effort to ask the question, what would The Original Series be like with real astronauts and the things we had learned about space since it had gone off the TV airwaves? Everything from the less colourful uniforms and sterile environments, to the way the ship sits in spacedock, to the sequences with Spock and Kirk in spacesuits, there's a degree of reality there. Not hypothetical reality like the TV show did, but actual, tangible reality, applying Trek's world to something closer approaching our own.
Nasa and the Voyager probe program are even important parts of the backstory.
The pace of the movie reflects this. Acknowledging that even faster-than-light travel is still going to take us a long time to get anywhere.
TMP is artistically brilliant.
It isn't what audiences expected.
But it is brilliant.
Star Trek, post-Moon landings.
There's a verisimilitude to TMP that most other Trek lacks.
I find that compelling.
The following sequels kinda went back to action adventure in space, but TMP genuinely seems like, it's making an effort to ask the question, what would The Original Series be like with real astronauts and the things we had learned about space since it had gone off the TV airwaves? Everything from the less colourful uniforms and sterile environments, to the way the ship sits in spacedock, to the sequences with Spock and Kirk in spacesuits, there's a degree of reality there. Not hypothetical reality like the TV show did, but actual, tangible reality, applying Trek's world to something closer approaching our own.
Nasa and the Voyager probe program are even important parts of the backstory.
The pace of the movie reflects this. Acknowledging that even faster-than-light travel is still going to take us a long time to get anywhere.
TMP is artistically brilliant.
It isn't what audiences expected.
But it is brilliant.
TMP is a great film for the first hour. After that, yes it is tedious. I really like everything about Kirk getting back the ship and it's preparation to leave. Kirk's enthusiasm and nervousness are infectious. Shatner's performance is super subtle. Once the wormhole hits, though, things go to hell. People literally spend most of the time watching a screen, whether its the V'Ger approach or Kirk spying on Decker and Illia. Collins is so bland I wish they would deepfake him out of the HD Director's Cut. The last time I watched the film it was in the theater with friends (35mm, not the 40th anni digital release) and we all walked out drained of energy. I vowed never to see the thing in a single sitting again. All that said, I think it's the best of all the movies, TOS and TNG, and the only film I consider part of my head canon.
One particular movie critic called it ‘Star Trek : The Motionless Picture’.
No comments from the original poster on this rather interesting conversation? I'm leaving this open since you all have managed to be adults and have fun with this. Spock's Eyebrow, you may or may not have been trolling here, but I'll tell you that coming in, saying someone "isn't a true fan" if they don't like this is not a way to win friends and influence people. I suggest you not do that again.
I generally don't like it when effects are used to be a movie, but TMP takes much loving time in showing the size and scale of these starships and starbases - it does transcend the "Look at me, aren't I shiny and pretty unlike all 500 plot holes you missed while staring at me flashing" aspect and really does make the ship feel like an actual character in a character piece. It makes the whole Federation space program feel that much more tangible and even real, seeing people doing duty work from the outside. No Trek movie since has shown such a scale since, apart from one scene in "Generations" when everyone's wandering around on the saucer hull, but even that doesn't begin to compare to TMP's artistic depth in selling something more than just an art deco ship floating in space. They were selling an experience and trying to sell the authenticity of a starship. Star Wars 77 didn't do that, but The Empire Strikes Back did - for one brief moment at the end.
But effects alone doesn't make the movie, no matter how great or no matter how real they feel.
The movie is not perfect by any means. It has moments of slowness with idle padding. The movie is still too derivative for its own sake*, and the fact one of the stars is a child molester and in a movie that is clearly welcoming of all ages makes that a little more disturbing.
But is the movie tedious? No. It's more experimental in an attempt to be epic, which works on some levels but not others.
* yes, innovation is a thing but when a new show innovates, the audience is preferring to be thinking more of what the new show is doing on its own. Not having people think "Oh, they just nicked that from episodes x and y, yawn." Now sometimes late in the presentation there will be a twist and maybe it's a good one, but you still have the audience sitting there wondering how far the copycatting, perceived or otherwise, will go.
But effects alone doesn't make the movie, no matter how great or no matter how real they feel.
The movie is not perfect by any means. It has moments of slowness with idle padding. The movie is still too derivative for its own sake*, and the fact one of the stars is a child molester and in a movie that is clearly welcoming of all ages makes that a little more disturbing.
But is the movie tedious? No. It's more experimental in an attempt to be epic, which works on some levels but not others.
* yes, innovation is a thing but when a new show innovates, the audience is preferring to be thinking more of what the new show is doing on its own. Not having people think "Oh, they just nicked that from episodes x and y, yawn." Now sometimes late in the presentation there will be a twist and maybe it's a good one, but you still have the audience sitting there wondering how far the copycatting, perceived or otherwise, will go.
This is how I feel about it. Subsequent movies are better paced but they have aged less well for me than TMP. I love its scope, the fact that it featured a more diverse crew, with more women and more aliens that most of the other movies. The uniforms would be better if they looked more like uniforms with padded shoulders and collars, and normal boots but I like them overall. The technology is a great mixture of futuristic yet grounded in reality that was cast aside for a flashy visual in some of the subsequent movies.
I think there are definitely shortcomings in the movie. I would have liked each character to get one more moment to show off their personality and/or skills. Maybe a brief scene on the Rec Deck with all the supporting crew interacting together would have been enough. Plus I would have enjoyed a proper landing party scene, maybe if a landing party had gone after Spock rather than the final bluffing taking place on the bridge.
Whoa. For some reason I didn't know that about Collins. Looked it up. Wow, you never know about people. 
That being said, I've been a big fan of TMP since it hit the theaters and I was a little Trekker. In my old age, I appreciate it as a fine example of 70s science fiction and late 70s cinema.
I'll always cherish it.
That being said, I've been a big fan of TMP since it hit the theaters and I was a little Trekker. In my old age, I appreciate it as a fine example of 70s science fiction and late 70s cinema.
I'll always cherish it.
Ugh...... The true trekker comment really makes me want to avoid this topic, but I do want to chime in.
TMP and TUC are the TOS movies I rewatch the most. Especially TMP, since it is to me the most cinematic, and well made of the TOS movies. And feels a lot more like TOS than the other movies did. But those are just my two cents.
TMP and TUC are the TOS movies I rewatch the most. Especially TMP, since it is to me the most cinematic, and well made of the TOS movies. And feels a lot more like TOS than the other movies did. But those are just my two cents.
The first hour or so of TMP may be the finest hour of Trek in the history of the franchise, imho.
From the opening scene with the Klingon battle cruisers in battle formation (and the cool music playing in the background), all the way to Kirk's "Stop competing with me Decker" scene. That first hour or so was packed with awesome scenes.
From the get-go, visually, it was a beautiful movie to behold. Also, right at the beginning of the movie, we were presented with the new look Klingons. I remember being shocked and awed by the new look. Didn't expect that. It was so much to take in. But wow. So, this is TOS on the big screen. It was impressive. It was quite a sight to finally behold TOS on the big screen with big time production value.
Then we finally got to see Spock again, on Vulcan in the middle of his Kolinahr ceremony. Maybe the really emotional scene, of that first hour, that stirred up the nostalgia was Kirk's emotional fly-by of the Enterprise docked in spaceport (again with the fantastic Jerry Goldsmith music in the background).
There was something magical about seeing TOS again, after so many years, and on the big screen, no less.
The movie wasn't tedious for that first hour or so. However, the movie did drag a bit in the middle.
It did pick up the drama when Kirk was matching wits against V'ger. One of my favorite lines in the movie was when McCoy asked, "Jim, what the hell kind of strategy is this?" The movie wasn't tedious at the end either. Overall, it was good drama and excellent cinematography.
From the opening scene with the Klingon battle cruisers in battle formation (and the cool music playing in the background), all the way to Kirk's "Stop competing with me Decker" scene. That first hour or so was packed with awesome scenes.
From the get-go, visually, it was a beautiful movie to behold. Also, right at the beginning of the movie, we were presented with the new look Klingons. I remember being shocked and awed by the new look. Didn't expect that. It was so much to take in. But wow. So, this is TOS on the big screen. It was impressive. It was quite a sight to finally behold TOS on the big screen with big time production value.
Then we finally got to see Spock again, on Vulcan in the middle of his Kolinahr ceremony. Maybe the really emotional scene, of that first hour, that stirred up the nostalgia was Kirk's emotional fly-by of the Enterprise docked in spaceport (again with the fantastic Jerry Goldsmith music in the background).
There was something magical about seeing TOS again, after so many years, and on the big screen, no less.
The movie wasn't tedious for that first hour or so. However, the movie did drag a bit in the middle.
It did pick up the drama when Kirk was matching wits against V'ger. One of my favorite lines in the movie was when McCoy asked, "Jim, what the hell kind of strategy is this?" The movie wasn't tedious at the end either. Overall, it was good drama and excellent cinematography.
I hate to use this word but it really did feel epic. I'm watching many TOS episodes for the first time, and while fun, it comes off as very cheesy a lot of the time. And watching The Motion Picture immediately after, and being aware that a long period of time has passed since TOS and this, it feels like everything got more serious, more realistic, and that I'm embarking on the beginning of some great saga.
Instead of Spock still in Starfleet, he's finally at the moment where he will purify himself of his human side and achieve Vulcan perfection.
And seeing the transition between cheesy TV sets and grand scale scenes of Earth and vast interiors of space stations, it's breath taking. The scene where they're flying past the Enterprise in docking station...it looks like a real space ship docked in space, with all the details.
The interior of the Enterprise makes it seem huge and vast.
I love it.
And the sound effects when first encountering the space cloud, the way they made it looked, almost Giger-esque was really something. Easily one of the better, if not best TOS films. Then its TWOK. TUC is really good but Starfleets regression to space racists was a bit too far.
Instead of Spock still in Starfleet, he's finally at the moment where he will purify himself of his human side and achieve Vulcan perfection.
And seeing the transition between cheesy TV sets and grand scale scenes of Earth and vast interiors of space stations, it's breath taking. The scene where they're flying past the Enterprise in docking station...it looks like a real space ship docked in space, with all the details.
The interior of the Enterprise makes it seem huge and vast.
I love it.
And the sound effects when first encountering the space cloud, the way they made it looked, almost Giger-esque was really something. Easily one of the better, if not best TOS films. Then its TWOK. TUC is really good but Starfleets regression to space racists was a bit too far.
