I think the changes being discussed here would be the ruination of the film.
TMP - from hater to avid fan…
- Thread starter Warped9
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Just a shame Paramount never gave Wise an opportunity to do a re-edit of the film sooner after release in 1980 or 1981. Some of the memos I've seen post-release from Roddenberry, Wise, and Todd Ramsay seem to indicate there was a possibility of it happening.
I'd have been interested to see what his fine cut of the film would've been when things were still fresh in his mind... and weren't influenced by some of the fannish intentions of the DE team who introduced things that had no business being there (I still hate that TOS shuttle in the SF Tram sequence).
I'd have been interested to see what his fine cut of the film would've been when things were still fresh in his mind... and weren't influenced by some of the fannish intentions of the DE team who introduced things that had no business being there (I still hate that TOS shuttle in the SF Tram sequence).
It'd hurt the dog to cut off its tail. Lines can be trimmed here and there but, (and I stress) for me, some aspects - like music and picture - are just inextricably linked once the film is out there.
Would you trim the stargate sequence in 2001?
Yep. This is what I'm referring to.
But then why does that only apply to the drydock? The DE edited the cloud and V'ger flyovers and made music edits to do so. It's the same thing.
That's a disingenuous question. I'm discussing what Wise himself said he wanted to do to his film just after its release, not what an outsider would do to someone else's film. I defer to his contemporary judgment about the film edit he wanted (not what he consented to 20 years later).
EDITED TO ADD: And Kubrick himself cut 2001 by something like 19 minutes after gauging the audience reaction to the first road shows of the film.
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^^this
It's another reason I prefer the extended TV cut as the best version. Few 4K releases took the time to take special TV versions to rescan and restore them in their original aspect ratio, so what we got for TMP with this bonus release in proper 4K is pretty dang sweet.
100%. For me, while I’ve recently rewatched the original theatrical cut and think it’s just fine, for me the “proper” cut is the ABC version. (And I prefer both to the “Director’s Cut” where among other things, V’Ger is no longer a not-quite-glimpsable Eldritch From Space but basically just a big spiky stick.)
IIRC, a considerable portion of that excised material was interview segments with scientists and astronomers. I keep wondering how all that would’ve fit into the narrative. Either way, it’s definitely a sensible cut from the picture.
There was redundancy cut as well. Hal playing an another game (not chess). Poole's spacewalk was supposedly very much like Bowman's and closer to the same length, so as to make the pod turning and going after him more of a surprise after lulling you into a false sense of security. Some of the cuts are detailed in one of the books I have,
What I liked most about the director's cut is getting one or two good exterior distance shots of V'Ger* as reference points, instead of just Enterprise running parallel to it (which still is jaw-droppingly gorgeous and awe-inducing), though in fairness our not seeing it in the original/ABC cuts led to even more mystery. That one's a coin tosser for me, though on top of that the f/x team ran out of time to be able to do it. The reduction of the "red alert" vocal was also appreciated... and one exterior shot of a V'ger plasma bolt hit from aft view was kinda cool. But some edits were too tight** and replacing the low-pitched klaxon with a high pitched whiny noise just sapped the experience of the new ship and TMP really is about the new ship, sense of scale and all.
* from what I recall, and having just looked up the intended design, I' increasingly agreeing with you. The "close-up" of Enterprise close to its hull without the mid shots to show both ships was to the movie's betterment.
** yep, you rarely hear that as applied to TMP
While I actually preferred the cold, masculine, repetitive computer voice (“RED ALERT. RED ALERT. THE SHIP IS AT RED ALERT. RED ALERT.
on the other hand, we get multiple separate shots of the Death Star, some hangar approach scenes, and an extended sequance along the surface that, among other things, shows us that yes, it's really that big.
Which in no way slows down the pace of the story.
Yeah, I love TMP, but to compare the Vejur flyover to the handful of shots of the Death Star is... Interesting. 
The problem with showing the "whole Vejur" is that at the end of the day it's still a space ship. It's supposed to be the size of Manhattan. Which next to the Enterprise is astonishing. But go look at the Big Blue Marble shot of the Earth and tell me how intimidating Manhattan looks.
There are a couple of the exterior shots in the 2022 SE (that are still RELATIVELY close to Vejur) that look fantastic on the big screen. (A little less so at home.) But that final shot that they keep trying to shoehorn into the final explosion of transcendence was terrible both times.
The original shot is sublime.
The problem with showing the "whole Vejur" is that at the end of the day it's still a space ship. It's supposed to be the size of Manhattan. Which next to the Enterprise is astonishing. But go look at the Big Blue Marble shot of the Earth and tell me how intimidating Manhattan looks.
There are a couple of the exterior shots in the 2022 SE (that are still RELATIVELY close to Vejur) that look fantastic on the big screen. (A little less so at home.) But that final shot that they keep trying to shoehorn into the final explosion of transcendence was terrible both times.
The original shot is sublime.
i guess it depends on whether you think the slowness is slowing it down, or that the slowness is part of the story
maybe it's because i was watching it since practically before i can remember, but i like the slow pace, the "stop, look, take it in" aspect, and didn't understand why anybody hated it when i found out that was apparently the prevailing opinion
Better Call Saul was a bit like TMP in spots…nothing rushed.
TMP was such a big concept that it really needed a mini-series.
I would (gasp) make the story longer!
There would be changes…Kirk at a desk..squirming a bit… Spock on Vulcan sensing something.
Episode one ends with V’ger passing close to the Klingon homeworld.
Episode II ends with the destruction of the listening outpost. Episode III with Kirk regaining command, etc.
ST:TMP was like trying to do Game of Thrones in one film. Vince Gilligan would be my choice of a showrunner.
TMP was such a big concept that it really needed a mini-series.
I would (gasp) make the story longer!
There would be changes…Kirk at a desk..squirming a bit… Spock on Vulcan sensing something.
Episode one ends with V’ger passing close to the Klingon homeworld.
Episode II ends with the destruction of the listening outpost. Episode III with Kirk regaining command, etc.
ST:TMP was like trying to do Game of Thrones in one film. Vince Gilligan would be my choice of a showrunner.
Agreed, I think how the pre-DE versions leave V'ger more to the imagination works better.
Scale in space is a difficult thing to convey without any comparative reference point(s).
- The Fesarius in “The Corbomite Maneuver” doesn’t look like much until it comes up to the Enterprise.
- The doomsday planet killer looks big compared to a starship, but in reality it would be nothing compared to a planet. In that light it doesn’t seem like much at all.
- A Borg cube isn’t that impressive until you match it against the Enterprise D.
- E-D is supposed to be big, but it doesn’t really look it when viewed on its own.
- Vger may be as massive as a large city compared to the TMP E, but it’s nothing compared to a planet.
- The Fesarius in “The Corbomite Maneuver” doesn’t look like much until it comes up to the Enterprise.
- The doomsday planet killer looks big compared to a starship, but in reality it would be nothing compared to a planet. In that light it doesn’t seem like much at all.
- A Borg cube isn’t that impressive until you match it against the Enterprise D.
- E-D is supposed to be big, but it doesn’t really look it when viewed on its own.
- Vger may be as massive as a large city compared to the TMP E, but it’s nothing compared to a planet.
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