• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

TMP Edit Project

I'd like to hear from the people who DIDN'T originally like TMP, which I thought was the majority of people, Trek fans or not. Until now, when the diehard TMP fans are coming out of the woodwork to tell me how much they hate my edit, and in some cases, me, I didn't even think TMP fans existed. It seemed like everybody hated TMP, and I always thought that TMP didn't deserve the hate that was lobbed at it. I always felt that there was a genuinely good movie AND Star Trek adventure buried underneath the excessive and boring special effects; one of the main reasons for my edit was to see if the people who originally didn't like it might like it after watching the edit, which was meant to bring forth the good aspects of the film, so that they might be more clearly seen and enjoyed by people who originally didn't like it.

So, people who hated TMP, have you watched my edit, and if so, do you like the film more now that you've seen the edited version?

You came to a Star Trek board and are surprised that there are TMP fans?

I watched the first ten minutes and came away very unimpressed. Didn't like the change to the opening theme. New theme kinda signals a new era for ST. Didn't like the switch to Epsilon Nine for the opening sequence. The Klingon opening provided some flavor to a film that really needs it. Then you cut out the transporter accident from what I read? Very bad choice, as others have already pointed out.

The Klingon opening also provides the hook for the whole movie. We're Star Trek fans... we know what those ships represent. And this unknown wipes them out like they're nothing. And it only wipes out two in your version.
 
Mmk, here's my opinion on one of my favorite movies ever--

I'm a bit of a young'un...I first watched The Motion Picture back when I was six or seven, which was around 1991 or 1992. The movie was so unbelievably epic to me. It invoked such a sense of awe into my childhood brain that I would recreate scenes from the movie using pillow forts, and scribble pencil recreations of the scenes from the film over and over in my school notebook. For what it's worth, you have to love the film's totally epic sense of size and wonder, if anything. V'ger is huge--the cloud surrounding the entity is over 82 AU in diameter (or 2 AU, if you go by the Director's Cut). And, really, a lot of movies will describe big things, but this movie shows you these big things, and really plugs it into your head how massive everything is using absolutely beautiful special effects for the time period (and now, even--I mean, the effects look good freakin' now, and I can hardly say that about almost any other film from the Seventies). It's a masterpiece of mood and atmosphere crossed with the big ideas and human metaphors of the best of Star Trek. It's a little overly ponderous and meandering at times, but I almost appreciate the slow march of the narrative which really adds to the grandiose, epic sci-fi feel. Too much action would rob the film of its artistic grandeur. It's not an action film. People compare it to The Wrath of Khan and complain about the lethargic pace. It's a thinking film. It's an idea film. It's not about space battles and good versus evil.

There's so many things this movie does right, from the David Cronenburg-esque brutality of the transporter malfunction ("Oh no! They're forming...") reminding us that Kirk isn't as "tried" and he believes he is (surrounded by new faces, redesigned and unfamiliar corridors, and experimental, unsafe equipment), to the wonderful species diversity of the crew shown in the first recreation room scene, to the incredible score, to the fascinating insights into V'ger's desires and goals as analyzed and described by the classic trio of Kirk, Bones, and Spock...that the pros outweigh the cons, in my humble little noob opinion. This movie left my jaw dropped to the floor when I was a kid, and it still does, to the extent that when I first bought the Director's Cut, I watched it three times in a row, twice for both commentaries and once without. Yeah, I'm that far gone. :lol:

That said, the movie is damned near perfect in my eyes, and cutting it up anymore would rob from the film. The faults in The Motion Picture cannot be reconciled by trimming. There's scenes that should have been filmed, that would have added some action, and made the idea of V'ger a bit more palatable and believable, such as the "Memory Wall" sequence in the original script. I really like Decker, and I think, given some more character development, he could have really shined. I only barely buy the idea that Decker would suddenly say that as much as Kirk wanted his command back, he wanted to join with V'ger and throw away his life work in Starfleet and as a human being in general. It's a cool idea, and again, halfways understandable--I just feel like his motives should have been developed a bit more. I don't mind the costumes as much as most people do, I just would have liked to see some continuity with the colors, and more uniformity with respect to the costume designs. Everyone seems to be wearing random shades of grey, brown, and white regardless of the department they're in, and there seems to be too many variations of outfit style going on.

Anyway, I'll wrap up this nonsensical ramble by saying that I'd like to watch your edit out of curiosity. I feel the best version of the film is indeed Robert Wise's Director's Cut, though. I think all of the faults that could have been fixed by trimming were fixed in that version, and the added special effects are perfect (and in one case, necessary for continuity--the removal of the moon orbiting Vulcan in particular).
 
Another thought related to the transporter accident--yeah, I probably have a weird fascination with the brutality of the whole thing because I love bizarro Cronenberg movies like Videodrome and The Fly, but this scene is more than that. It needed to be brutal. The scene, along with the wormhole sequence, was a reminder to Kirk of the seriousness of the situation. Real lives were at stake. They were working with experimental equipment. I think, early on, in the film, Kirk did take advantage of the situation to get his command back, as Decker accused him. These scenes, especially the transporter scene, are important, because it's a reminder to Kirk that perhaps he rushed a little into this without thinking, and how unprepared he was for the captaincy of this untested vessel that he assumed was the same ol' Enterprise. This wasn't simply a game where the objective was to get back into the big chair. Space is for real--people die out there. The point is driven home in the aftermath of the transporter scene when Kirk has to ask a yeoman which way the turbolift is.

I just recently read that you elected to remove the scene from your edit.

I can't agree with that choice! ;)
 
I thought the transporter scene was completely unnecessary and added nothing to the film, and I applaud its removal as a good choice. However, it seems odd that you kept the introduction of Sonak in the movie while you took it out. Instead of getting transporter-mutilated, he just....vanishes into thin air? That's a problem, I think. I think you did a good job cutting down the infamous "LOOK AT THE ENTERPRISE YOU GUYS" scene down to a sane length while still keeping some good establishing shots of the ship. I don't like the TOS TV show music, though. In general, it has all the subtlety of a Mack truck hitting you full-speed right in the face, and the music for TMP was one of its high points IMO. I haven't watched too far into it, but my biggest advice so far would be to look at the whole thing and ask yourself if it flows. Parts of it seem like they jerk unevenly, even though parts of it (such as the Enterprise introduction) are noted improvements.
 
To be brutally honest... I really don't think he wants it to "flow", or even cares if it does, because it's blatantly obvious that he wants a TOS-only product, which is utterly IMPOSSIBLE, given the material he's working with... as harsh as it is to hear... you cannot meld the two. But, there it is.
 
Don't take out the transporter accident, that's the best scene of the film. It's so nasty that I cringe watching it, but I rarely watch TMP anyway.
 
To be brutally honest... I really don't think he wants it to "flow", or even cares if it does, because it's blatantly obvious that he wants a TOS-only product, which is utterly IMPOSSIBLE, given the material he's working with... as harsh as it is to hear... you cannot meld the two. But, there it is.

I'm not a TMP hater, I liked TMP when I first saw it back in '79, but I considered it a long way from perfect. I used to think that TMP was totally un-TOS like, that was one of my complaints about it.

I watched the DE again and was surprised to find I enjoyed it more than I have for many years. Having watched a cosiderable portion of TOS Purists edit, I found myself "mentally editing" it and was able to appreciate that it has many TOS like moments.

Basically, it is the Changling with a different ending - one could argue that that isn't the best thing to have rebooted Trek with back in 1979, but I'm OK with it. I'm looking forward to seeing what TOS Purist did with the rest of the film.

I would be interesting to see if it could be cut to a single episode length and if so, what the result would be.
 
To be brutally honest... I really don't think he wants it to "flow", or even cares if it does, because it's blatantly obvious that he wants a TOS-only product, which is utterly IMPOSSIBLE, given the material he's working with... as harsh as it is to hear... you cannot meld the two. But, there it is.
There IS no "flow" to his edit. His conception of editing is how much he can hack out. It's film editing with an axe. From the parts I've seen it's clear he doesn't understand the use of or the necessity of basic cinematography conventions like establishing shots, let alone medium level stuff like progressive or regressive approach to shots in a scene.

Frankly, this "edit" is a Lizzie Borden hatchet job, whacking off chunks without concern for continuity, rising action, narrative flow or even visual flow. It's great that computers give people access to the kinds of tools professionals use, but what people forget is that just because you have the tools doesn't mean you have the training to use them properly.

It's obvious TOS Purist has long since stopped paying attention to voices that are anything but fawning over his work, so I'm returning the favor and not wasting any more time on this topic.
 
To be brutally honest... I really don't think he wants it to "flow", or even cares if it does.
Not true.

It's great that computers give people access to the kinds of tools professionals use
DS9, I did this edit in Windows Movie Maker, which is probably the crappiest, non-professional, basic editing software out there. Later on I do plan on doing a "master edit" of TMP using better software AND TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION the feedback I have gotten in this very thread, but this isn't my final version, and it WASN'T done professionally. Consider it a draft.

It's obvious TOS Purist has long since stopped paying attention to voices that are anything but fawning over his work, so I'm returning the favor and not wasting any more time on this topic.
Dude, there ARE no voices "fawning over my work." And when I DO respond to criticism, I get people telling me to ignore it, and NOT to respond to it, or to respond to it in this way or that way, or whatever. I have no idea what you people want from me, so at this point, I'm just reading comments, taking notes for the "master edit," and that's about it.

Thank you for not wasting any more of your valuable time in this thread.
 
And when I DO respond to criticism, I get people telling me to ignore it, and NOT to respond to it, or to respond to it in this way or that way, or whatever.

You actually care how other people tell you to respond? Let me try!

If anyone posts a negative comment about your edit, delete your entire edit from your computer, take it offline, come back to the threads and pull a "Monster a-go-go" on us.
 
TOSPurist,

I am curious...you say you did this in Windows Movie Maker. That is interesting to me, because I have always been tempted to make fan trailers or other such things myself for kicks, but thought that I needed professional software in order to make it happen.

I guess my question is, how did you get the DVD on your computer for Windows Movie Maker to even read it?

I realize this question might boarder on questionable within the rules of the BBS (regarding copyright), so if you could at least PM me, that would be great!
 
TOS Purist,

Again... I don't want you to think I'm trying to be mean, or attack you, because I'm not. But BECAUSE I know you, and we are friends, I KNOW how much you love TOS, and you have to admit, that your goal IS to make this as much like TOS as possible... you have told me as much.

But it can't be done, because of the moods... it's like trying to convert honky-tonk music, into an opera or symphony... it won't work. Again, my two cents.
 
I think TMP as TOS already exists, and has existed for a long time, as "The Changeling".

Probe sent out by Earth around the turn of the millennium, its simple programming modified, seeks out perfect/true life, and wishes to speak with its Creator. The pleasures and nuances of humanity are considered trivial and irrelevant.

In TOS, Kirk shuts the computer down. In TMP, Decker merges with it.
 
I guess my question is, how did you get the DVD on your computer for Windows Movie Maker to even read it?
Ripping video from DVDs is always tricky, but I found a good program for it. Expect a PM from me! :techman:

Again... I don't want you to think I'm trying to be mean, or attack you, because I'm not. But BECAUSE I know you, and we are friends, I KNOW how much you love TOS, and you have to admit, that your goal IS to make this as much like TOS as possible... you have told me as much.
I realize you're not being mean, but your jabs at what you perceive as me not even trying to do a good job on it, and at what you perceive as my lack of editing skills kind of hurt, especially since you know what I'm in college for.

I can take constructive criticism; hell, I WANTED constructive criticism to take into account for when I do the "master edit." Otherwise I wouldn't have posted it online. But this thread has gotten way out of hand; instead of staying objective and talking about the edit, the posts have gotten very personal and have strayed into the realm of attacking ME instead of critiquing the edit like rational adults. I didn't expect this kind of behavior here, but it reminds me why I took such a long hiatus in posting here a while back. People here are too confrontational and viscious; I suppose that's what the anonymity of the Internet does to people!
 
I think TMP as TOS already exists, and has existed for a long time, as "The Changeling".

Probe sent out by Earth around the turn of the millennium, its simple programming modified, seeks out perfect/true life, and wishes to speak with its Creator. The pleasures and nuances of humanity are considered trivial and irrelevant.

In TOS, Kirk shuts the computer down. In TMP, Decker merges with it.

The difference in the ending does make for a different story and feeling.
In TOS computers were to be feared and forced to self-destruct whilst in TMP they are to be "loved" and merged with. I realise Rayna is an exception, but Nomad, the M5, the computer in Return of the Archons etc(?). are typical.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top