TMP Edit Project

[TOS Purist]

By "Epsilon 9 being the main characters," I meant that they're the same organization as Kirk and Co. - the Federation. The Klingons were only there to show off the models.

Thanks for the feedback, BolianAdmiral buddy, I don't hate TMP. I never really liked it that much, but I never hated it the way I hate TWOK. And after I changed a few things like the pacing in my edit, I can safely say that I actually LIKE the movie now. I hope that other people who never liked TMP can watch my edit and enjoy it, too. Spread the love, people! We reach!

 

[DestinyCaptain]

Ok, I gotta know....what's wrong with WOK?

 

[TOS Purist]

For that, dear sir with the awesome avatar, I refer you to this thread, and my posts made therein (and the posts of others): http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=99688

 

[Shatmandu]

TOS Purist, two things to remember about the creative process, in my opinion:

One is that you've got to be ready for people who don't like what you've done.

It's hard to accept, after you spent all that time and all that effort, but there will always be people who don't like your stuff. For every pat on the back, there'll be a kick in the nuts.

The second is that you never, ever defend your creative choices. You did what you did because you felt it was best. Period.

You absorb the opinions of others, if you're looking for input, but you don't try to convince them. Take it all in, but don't give it out. It's like arguing with a woman: you're not going to win, so just do what you do.

One issue here, with this project, is that everyone knows what you cut. In a real-world situation, no one would know that you felt the Klingons were stiff and lame and poorly executed.

Again, all my opinion. If you want to fight, fight. But what are you gaining from it?

Joe, impressed by what you did

 

[SonicRanger]

Another problem with trying to do the impossible and edit TMP so that it has the same tone and feel as TOS is that you could simply pop your copy of "The Changeling" into the DVD player and be done with it.

 

[Jeyl]

When I hear Goldsmith's theme, all I hear is the TNG theme. Since I hate TNG, and this is supposed to be a TOS movie, I didn't think it was appropriate.

So your distaste for TNG means the whole film should suffer for it? Uh, that doesn't really make any sense since TNG wasn't going to happen for almost a decade. Plus, it's not uncommon for shows to have different themes as they progress.

 

[Ziz]

Not to mention the fact that Goldsmith wrote the TNG theme BASED ON HIS TMP THEME, so which is a copy of which? Killing the TMP theme because you don't like TNG is akin to the tail wagging the dog.

 

[Pauln6]

I was fond of the Black Hole theme. Can we use that?

 

[BolianAuthor]

Not to mention the fact that Goldsmith wrote the TNG theme BASED ON HIS TMP THEME, so which is a copy of which? Killing the TMP theme because you don't like TNG is akin to the tail wagging the dog.

See... I told you... this is why TMP can't be forced into something it's not... TOS.

This is also why I usually hate any kind of fan edits... because they (the fan) presume to know how to make something better, or how to merge something together, when they really don't, and end up mauling the perfection of the original source material.

Yes, TMP was perfect... for what it was. Deal with it.

TOS Purist, instead of trying to work with the material of TMP, why don't you just try to put together clips from TOS itself, to tell a smilar story as TMP? At least that way, you still accomplish your goal, and you also keep the look and sound of your work consistent.

 

[Jeyl]

This is also why I usually hate any kind of fan edits... because they (the fan) presume to know how to make something better, or how to merge something together, when they really don't, and end up mauling the perfection of the original source material.

Perfection? Perfection is not a factor when it comes to editing. The only element that even matters in the field of editing is 'perception'. And believe it or not, editors will always have a different perception on how the film should be edited when compared to the director because they both look at the film in a different way. There are some directors who will let the editors just do their thing, and there are some who won't leave the editing room as long as the editor is there.

What these fan editors do is no different. And I wouldn't be too quick to shut out fan editors either because there are some pretty impressive cuts out there that do make me think on whether the original edit was better.

And most of the good editors don't edit the films because they think they know it better. That's just a delusion. However, when it comes to the directors and editors who know the film and all it's contents, an audience perspective on how the film turns out can just be equally important because they're the ones you're releasing the film to.

 

[Sovay]

TMP is one of my favorite movies, so I perhaps watched this edit with a prejudice. For some reason the only terrible bit for me is the inclusion of the subtext (locations, stardates)- utterly unnecessary, and especially bad in an editorial sense is the way the scene changes WHILE the stardate is displayed (about 2.56 in.) I think a golden rule of of that sort of thing should be to put it up for only enough time to read it, and only over one shot, not multiple shots.
As for the whole thing I haven't a judgement, as I don't have time to watch the whole lot. I think though that it's important to keep it within the context in which it was made. It does have that late 70's aesthetic, but I think mixing 21st century editorial ideas into that could do more harm than good.

Still it's nice

 

[BolianAuthor]

This is also why I usually hate any kind of fan edits... because they (the fan) presume to know how to make something better, or how to merge something together, when they really don't, and end up mauling the perfection of the original source material.

Perfection? Perfection is not a factor when it comes to editing. The only element that even matters in the field of editing is 'perception'. And believe it or not, editors will always have a different perception on how the film should be edited when compared to the director because they both look at the film in a different way. There are some directors who will let the editors just do their thing, and there are some who won't leave the editing room as long as the editor is there.

What these fan editors do is no different. And I wouldn't be too quick to shut out fan editors either because there are some pretty impressive cuts out there that do make me think on whether the original edit was better.

And most of the good editors don't edit the films because they think they know it better. That's just a delusion. However, when it comes to the directors and editors who know the film and all it's contents, an audience perspective on how the film turns out can just be equally important because they're the ones you're releasing the film to.

You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine. Personally, I feel that the actual editor of a given movie has done the best job possible, thus, the film is "perfect", in the sense that it is the end result that we saw. I happen to not like when fans get this urge to step all over that, and remake a film into something it's not.

But again, we are all entitled to our own opinions. In this case, we differ.

 

[TOS Purist]

TOS Purist, instead of trying to work with the material of TMP, why don't you just try to put together clips from TOS itself, to tell a smilar story as TMP? At least that way, you still accomplish your goal, and you also keep the look and sound of your work consistent.

Funny that you should mention that, because that's kind of exactly what I'm doing in my next project - taking the battle scene from "Star Trek VI" and replacing the footage of the crew with footage from various TOS episodes, just to see what it looks like amongst the cinematic music and sound effects. It's just as a fun experiment to see a "cinematic" TOS, sort of like making my own TOS movie, even if it's only one sequence.

 

[SonicRanger]

TOS Purist, instead of trying to work with the material of TMP, why don't you just try to put together clips from TOS itself, to tell a smilar story as TMP? At least that way, you still accomplish your goal, and you also keep the look and sound of your work consistent.

Done.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

One reason I thinki the Klingon battle should stay in the movie is that V'ger's destruction on Epsilon 9 isn't that impressive when you think about the fact that ti's a com station, it probably doesn't take much to destroy a com station. On the other hand Klingon warships are shown to be just as capable as the Enterprise so blowing up three of them shows that v'ger is pretty powerful.

Plus if you were going to make TMP into TOS it would proabably just be better to strip it down and turn it back into In Thy Image.

 

[Jeyl]

One reason I thinki the Klingon battle should stay in the movie is that V'ger's destruction on Epsilon 9 isn't that impressive when you think about the fact that ti's a com station, it probably doesn't take much to destroy a com station. On the other hand Klingon warships are shown to be just as capable as the Enterprise so blowing up three of them shows that v'ger is pretty powerful.

Not to mention we have the great Mark Lenard playing one of the best klingons ever seen on screen.

 

[Jeyl]

I happen to not like when fans get this urge to step all over that, and remake a film into something it's not.

What about the director's? There is such a thing as a Director's Cut of a movie. Which one is more perfect? The one the editor worked on for the theatrical release, or the one the director prefers?

 

[Broccoli]

I dunno, but this edit can only benefit with a fuck more lens flare.

 

[BolianAuthor]

I happen to not like when fans get this urge to step all over that, and remake a film into something it's not.

What about the director's? There is such a thing as a Director's Cut of a movie. Which one is more perfect? The one the editor worked on for the theatrical release, or the one the director prefers?

Well, let me put it this way...

The director's cut of a film is what the director considers to be perfect... otherwise, only the original version of the film would ever be released. But, when you have director's editions, they're made because the director felt that certain elements should have been different from the original. In that case, I guess it would be up to the viewer to decide which is better.

But again, even with a director's edition... it's still someone who actually worked on the original team, who was in charge of stuff... not just some fan on his computer, and as such, has a much more intimate knowledge and feel of the movie than that casual fan.

 

[TOS Purist]

I'd like to hear from the people who DIDN'T originally like TMP, which I thought was the majority of people, Trek fans or not. Until now, when the diehard TMP fans are coming out of the woodwork to tell me how much they hate my edit, and in some cases, me, I didn't even think TMP fans existed. It seemed like everybody hated TMP, and I always thought that TMP didn't deserve the hate that was lobbed at it. I always felt that there was a genuinely good movie AND Star Trek adventure buried underneath the excessive and boring special effects; one of the main reasons for my edit was to see if the people who originally didn't like it might like it after watching the edit, which was meant to bring forth the good aspects of the film, so that they might be more clearly seen and enjoyed by people who originally didn't like it.

So, people who hated TMP, have you watched my edit, and if so, do you like the film more now that you've seen the edited version?