Timelords and Gallifrey

[Chaos Descending]

Most Gallifreyans are called 'Shobogans', aren't they? Isn't that the generic term for all natives of Gallifrey?

A Time Lord/Lady is like an academic honor. A graduate of one of the elite Time Lord academies. Which not every Gallifreyan would do. (similiar to how not every human being attends Harvard, Yale, etc.) That's how I always interpreted it, anyway.

Most Gallifreyans are called 'Shobogans', aren't they? Isn't that the generic term for all natives of Gallifrey?

No, the Shobogans were the ones who left Time Lord society or at least that was meant to be the ones that Leela and Rodan ran into in wastelands of Gallifrey.

I think the Time Lords refer to their entire species as "Time Lords". This fits in with their haughty nature.

I do not think that Time Lords come from anywhere other than Gallifrey, is NOT an "Academic Title" or any other kind of honorific. I believe that Rassilon and Omega literally proclaimed their entire race to be the "Lords of Time".

No, I agree there's no evidence that they came from another planet, although that would a smart way to bring them back. But I do think it's entirely possible that not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords.

Let me explain what I meant by "I do not think that Time Lords come from anywhere other than Gallifrey".

I am talking about situations like in Death Comes to Time in which Ace was supposedly going to be "trained to become a Time Lord".

No, not gonna happen. Time Lords from Gallifrey are Time Lords. Girls from Earth are humans. Dogs can not train to become cats. Etc.

 

[DWF]

Let me explain what I meant by "I do not think that Time Lords come from anywhere other than Gallifrey".

I am talking about situations like in Death Comes to Time in which Ace was supposedly going to be "trained to become a Time Lord".

No, not gonna happen. Time Lords from Gallifrey are Time Lords. Girls from Earth are humans. Dogs can not train to become cats. Etc.

So does that mean Time Lords can't became human? Because we seen that happen twice on the new series. And then there's Donna's case.

 

[Chaos Descending]

So does that mean Time Lords can't became human?

By training to become one?

Nope.

Because we seen that happen twice on the new series.

Time Lords studied real hard and became humans? I missed that.

And then there's Donna's case.

Donna studied really hard to be granted the academic title of "Half-a-Time Lord"?

Heck, the whole Chameleon Arch business and the dialog surrounding it kinda backs up my opinion that Time Lord is a species, not a title.

 

[Starkers]

Okay, well assuming Rassilon and Omega weren't the first two members of their species, what were they originally called before that?

I actually love this new-to-me theory that the Time Lords and Gallifreyans are two separate species, and that the TL's come from somewhere unknown. It totally opens up a whole new level of mystery and intrigue about the Doctor's people. That's pretty brilliant.

I've always assumed that the Time Lords are the upper-echelon of Gallifreyan society. The natives Leela ran into are akin to just being another country on the planet. Same species, different culture and society. I'm sure there should be others, as well. Maybe the cat people Holmes was talking about? Who knows. That's the brilliance of not pigeon-holding the stories to brief glances from the past.

I have to say, though...thinking about regeneration...the dumbest thing the Gallifreyans/Time Lords could have done, was to employ the protective services of a military that was simply mortal. I mean, if they have the power to "give" people regeneration cycles, why wouldn't you give it to the people most likely to find it singularly useful? Just seems weird to me, is all. If nothing else, the militia that fought during the Time War would have totally had regeneration cycles. The height of bad planning, if they didn't...

Yeah but think about it from another angle. Do you really want your military to be that powerful? They might, after all, decide they could rule the place better than you!

 

[The]

^True! But, I just don't see the Time Lords being threatened by some badly-dressed guys with "Stazers"...

 

[Starkers]

Ha ha, good point!

 

[The Badger]

I have to say, though...thinking about regeneration...the dumbest thing the Gallifreyans/Time Lords could have done, was to employ the protective services of a military that was simply mortal. I mean, if they have the power to "give" people regeneration cycles, why wouldn't you give it to the people most likely to find it singularly useful? Just seems weird to me, is all. If nothing else, the militia that fought during the Time War would have totally had regeneration cycles. The height of bad planning, if they didn't...

How do we know that they didn't? Just because we've never seen a member of the Chancellery Guard regenerate on screen doesn't mean that they can't. We have seen Time Lords killed with a single shot before, and it has been implied that any injury that is instantly lethal can not be regenerated from. I'm guessing that before they made their move on Gallifrey the Sontarans would have developed anti-Time Lord weaponry.

 

[Peacemaker]

There's a line in one episode, I think The Sun Makers, that refers to the Time Lords as the oligarchic rulers of Gallifrey, which therefore means that not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords. Further, Arc of Infinity infers that this is the case.

 

[Stevil2001]

Jenny was biologically Gallifreyan (obviously), but the Doctor indicated that he didn't consider her a Time Lord. What was it he said? "It's a code," or something like that. In any case, indicating that Time Lordiness is separate from Gallifreyaness.

We know that regeneration and the Rassilon Imprimatur are created processes; I don't see any reason these couldn't be bestowed on a non-Gallifreyan as easily as a Gallifreyan.

 

[Middle Earther]

Tentative probing query from a newbie: What about the scene when the Master was a child and had to look into...the abyss or whatever recently? Doesn't that indicate that a Time Lord is a TL from training?

 

[DWF]

So does that mean Time Lords can't became human?

By training to become one?

Nope.

Because we seen that happen twice on the new series.

Time Lords studied real hard and became humans? I missed that.

And then there's Donna's case.

Donna studied really hard to be granted the academic title of "Half-a-Time Lord"?

Heck, the whole Chameleon Arch business and the dialog surrounding it kinda backs up my opinion that Time Lord is a species, not a title.

Even the Doctor had to go the Academy. I wouldn't get so hung up over events from the books.

 

[Sci]

Jenny was biologically Gallifreyan (obviously), but the Doctor indicated that he didn't consider her a Time Lord.

Yeah, but then at the end, he was willing to call her a Time Lord. So I don't think the Doctor was being particularly rational when he said that.

 

[Chaos Descending]

So does that mean Time Lords can't became human?

By training to become one?

Nope.

Time Lords studied real hard and became humans? I missed that.

And then there's Donna's case.

Donna studied really hard to be granted the academic title of "Half-a-Time Lord"?

Heck, the whole Chameleon Arch business and the dialog surrounding it kinda backs up my opinion that Time Lord is a species, not a title.

Even the Doctor had to go the Academy. I wouldn't get so hung up over events from the books.

Who's talking about the books?

 

[Stevil2001]

Jenny was biologically Gallifreyan (obviously), but the Doctor indicated that he didn't consider her a Time Lord.

Yeah, but then at the end, he was willing to call her a Time Lord. So I don't think the Doctor was being particularly rational when he said that.

Yeah, but on the other hand, I doubt it was something he totally pulled out of his butt at that particular moment to be mean to her.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Tentative probing query from a newbie: What about the scene when the Master was a child and had to look into...the abyss or whatever recently? Doesn't that indicate that a Time Lord is a TL from training?

Some Gallifreyans could have been trained from an early age, some not...

 

[DWF]

By training to become one?

Nope.

Time Lords studied real hard and became humans? I missed that.

Donna studied really hard to be granted the academic title of "Half-a-Time Lord"?

Heck, the whole Chameleon Arch business and the dialog surrounding it kinda backs up my opinion that Time Lord is a species, not a title.

Even the Doctor had to go the Academy. I wouldn't get so hung up over events from the books.

Who's talking about the books?

Audio drama my mistake.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Got it. I totally blanked the fact that you were referring to my reference to Death Comes to Time.