Here's a question, is every Gallifreyan a Timelord? Or is it a special title?
Timelords and Gallifrey
- Thread starter bismarck_1892
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This is an age-old debate but The Fourth Doctor serial The Invasion of Time seems to suggest that not every Gallifreyian is a Timelord. I'm sure the books, audios, and/or comics have gone further into depth on this.
Most Gallifreyans are called 'Shobogans', aren't they? Isn't that the generic term for all natives of Gallifrey?
A Time Lord/Lady is like an academic honor. A graduate of one of the elite Time Lord academies. Which not every Gallifreyan would do. (similiar to how not every human being attends Harvard, Yale, etc.) That's how I always interpreted it, anyway.
A Time Lord/Lady is like an academic honor. A graduate of one of the elite Time Lord academies. Which not every Gallifreyan would do. (similiar to how not every human being attends Harvard, Yale, etc.) That's how I always interpreted it, anyway.
There is one serial, forget the name, where they are on Gallifrey, and we see the lower class society of Gallifreyans don't we? People born of Gallifrey, but not "Timelords" i.e. gone through the Academy.
What is debatable is if those Gallifreyans can reginerate or not, I believe they can, that Timelord is just an elite title of graduating The Academy.
What is debatable is if those Gallifreyans can reginerate or not, I believe they can, that Timelord is just an elite title of graduating The Academy.
No, the Shobogans were the ones who left Time Lord society or at least that was meant to be the ones that Leela and Rodan ran into in wastelands of Gallifrey.
The Doctor in the current series has only ever referred to his race as the Time Lords; even when asked directly what his species is, that's the term he uses. I don't know if that's what all of the inhabitants of Gallifrey called themselves when they were still alive, but, if it wasn't, then the Doctor seems to have posthumously renamed his entire species. Which as the only member of his species left, is, I suppose, his prerogative.
And considering he's been a 'Time Lord' since he was eight year sold...
Take the city guard for example. They have to come from somewhere, and they seem to die easily enough when they're shot (i.e. no regeneration).
Well we know that the Doc's DNA seems to have been genetically engineered to some extent (Rassilon Imprimature) to enable him to bond to the TARDIS... possibly the Time Lords see those changes as sufficient to distinguish them as a separate species from ordinary Gallifreyans?
No, they were the Outsiders. The Sheboogans are only mentioned the once, in an aside by Castellan Spandrell (spelling is uncertain, but that's how he pronounces it - mind you, he's got quite a thick accent...) - he says they often get run in for petty vandalism, which doesn't give us much to go on - we could infer that they are an underclass, perhaps a petty criminal element, but also that they live inside the Citadel.
I thought the text comentary for The Invasion Of Time esaid otherwise.
It's a common fan misconception, but I promise you Spandrell's one line in "The Deadly Assassin" is the only mention of Sheboogans onscreen. It's one of those throwaway bits of world-building that Robert Holmes was so good at.
Ok, after re-reading that part of the commentary they do say that the Outsiders were originallly meant to have been cat people who left after building the citidal was allowed to leave Time Lord society. And originally the script said that there is a difference between Gallifreyans and Time Lords indicating that the Time Lords might have originated on Gallifrey. None of that though made it to the screen.
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^ CAT People? 
^ CAT People?
LOL! Yeah The Invasion Of Time was one screwed up storyline originally and too expensive to make in it's original form. What's worse is that the writer wasn't available for the rewrites, which is in the end a good thing given what they were going to do.
http://www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/4z.html
I think the Time Lords refer to their entire species as "Time Lords". This fits in with their haughty nature.
I do not think that Time Lords come from anywhere other than Gallifrey, is NOT an "Academic Title" or any other kind of honorific. I believe that Rassilon and Omega literally proclaimed their entire race to be the "Lords of Time".
I do not think that Time Lords come from anywhere other than Gallifrey, is NOT an "Academic Title" or any other kind of honorific. I believe that Rassilon and Omega literally proclaimed their entire race to be the "Lords of Time".
Okay, well assuming Rassilon and Omega weren't the first two members of their species, what were they originally called before that?
I actually love this new-to-me theory that the Time Lords and Gallifreyans are two separate species, and that the TL's come from somewhere unknown. It totally opens up a whole new level of mystery and intrigue about the Doctor's people. That's pretty brilliant.
I've always assumed that the Time Lords are the upper-echelon of Gallifreyan society. The natives Leela ran into are akin to just being another country on the planet. Same species, different culture and society. I'm sure there should be others, as well. Maybe the cat people Holmes was talking about? Who knows. That's the brilliance of not pigeon-holding the stories to brief glances from the past.
I have to say, though...thinking about regeneration...the dumbest thing the Gallifreyans/Time Lords could have done, was to employ the protective services of a military that was simply mortal. I mean, if they have the power to "give" people regeneration cycles, why wouldn't you give it to the people most likely to find it singularly useful? Just seems weird to me, is all. If nothing else, the militia that fought during the Time War would have totally had regeneration cycles. The height of bad planning, if they didn't...
I actually love this new-to-me theory that the Time Lords and Gallifreyans are two separate species, and that the TL's come from somewhere unknown. It totally opens up a whole new level of mystery and intrigue about the Doctor's people. That's pretty brilliant.
I've always assumed that the Time Lords are the upper-echelon of Gallifreyan society. The natives Leela ran into are akin to just being another country on the planet. Same species, different culture and society. I'm sure there should be others, as well. Maybe the cat people Holmes was talking about? Who knows. That's the brilliance of not pigeon-holding the stories to brief glances from the past.
I have to say, though...thinking about regeneration...the dumbest thing the Gallifreyans/Time Lords could have done, was to employ the protective services of a military that was simply mortal. I mean, if they have the power to "give" people regeneration cycles, why wouldn't you give it to the people most likely to find it singularly useful? Just seems weird to me, is all. If nothing else, the militia that fought during the Time War would have totally had regeneration cycles. The height of bad planning, if they didn't...
No, I agree there's no evidence that they came from another planet, although that would a smart way to bring them back. But I do think it's entirely possible that not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords.
