While wearing a ridiculous uniform, swearing in Klingon.
Timelines, reality,star trek, canon, and the Truth!
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Even classic Trek had APOTA - which was just for fun, and Spock's Brain. Not every episode had a huge thematic issue. And I think there are enough nuggets about revenge to count this as more substantive than either of those episodes. Besides which, brains did beat brawn here - and some lessons were learned.
Ah. My thesis that the TNG series and movies up until Roddenberry's death are more telling of how he wanted Star Trek to be. In TOS he had to change his original idea (the original pilot was too cerebral) to the more action oriented TOS with Kirk. Once that series ended and the movies began, then later with TNG, we get back to that cerebral Trek that Roddenberry originally wanted. Those Trek movies and episodes are riddled with moralizing and brains over brawn. That's the stuff I like best. To me, that is the heart of Trek. That's the only important part that I need to see continued for me to be a content fan. This film didn't deliver that for me.
By your own words then, when Spock and Kirk finally teamed up to take on Nero, it was a change for Kirk.
Kirk couldn't fly the Jellyfish and beat on the Romulans. Someone had to do that part.
The one problem that just occurred to me. Per what we know about Trek history, specifically the Enterprise.
From what we know, the Enterprise was already 20/25 years old when Kirk too command.
Therefore shouldn't the Enterprise been built and launched (or at least under construction) around the time Nero alters the time line?
I would think that logically, a single Federation ship being destroyed wouldn't have had that much of a drastic change on the time line.
From what we know, the Enterprise was already 20/25 years old when Kirk too command.
Therefore shouldn't the Enterprise been built and launched (or at least under construction) around the time Nero alters the time line?
I would think that logically, a single Federation ship being destroyed wouldn't have had that much of a drastic change on the time line.
I'm looking at a little differently, not from a physics standpoint, but from an entertainment standpoint. It's true that our DVDs, books, games, etc, will not go poof. They still exist.
But the original timeline, contunity, universe or whatever the hell you want to call it, has been effectively destroyed on a going forward basis as far as any new, professionally produced theatrical (features and TV) Trek is concerned. This film appears to be a big hit in the making and I'm sure if there's more Trek, it will pick up where this left off. They won't ever go back to the old timeline/universe. And I don't blame Paramount for that, it is what it is.
That other timeline/universe is gone forever as far as new Trek is concerned, so realistically it is destroyed. And while I enjoyed the film and I certainly don't begrudge anybody who loves it, I STILL don't think it was necessary.
"Abandoned by the studio" rather than "destroyed" would probably more precisely express your objection while simultaneously provoke far less vitriol by those who disagree with your perspective (based almost entirely, in most cases, on the use of the word "destroyed"). Just something to think about.
Guess I don't see the difference, as the end result will be same. TOS timeline/universe as we've known it for 40+ years will not be produced going forward. I know a lot of you think that's a good thing and maybe it is, I don't know, but I would hope you could understand why some of us are sad about that.
One formulation ("destroyed") is guaranteed to provoke further (needless) bickering--the other would be more likely to engender sympathy for your perspective. But, it's your choice.
I personally think that every time time travel has been used in Star Trek, something changes. The magnitude of that change may differ but practically spaeking, the timeline that we know of, from 3 seasons of TOS, 7 of TNG, 7 of DS9, and 7 of VOY have definitely changed. Some changes were seen in the future (Sela because of Yesterday's Enterprise), but still, things did change.
First Contact took us back to The Moment of First Contact with the Vulcans, and whatever effects Riker and Co. had on Lilly and Cochrane I am sure a lot changed there. When Scotty gives the guy the formula for transparent aluminum. When Sisko goes back and has to assume the person of this great leader (his name eludes me now). All of that changed the timeline we "know".
And I won't go too deep on Enterprise, but how many times did the future agent claim that certain things were not supposed to happen? Especially the Xindi attack, which I am sure took the Enterprise, Earth, and even the Federation down a much different path. Whatever we may think of Enterprise, it is canon.
So, for me, to just think that everything would be exactly as we "remember" it had Nero not destroyed the Kelvin is a little off. Having said that, yes, Abrams and Co. came in, threw a time traveling monkey wrench in canon and are now free to take the ship and crew in brand new adventures with many different variables. Is it wrong? I am not sure but I think this is better than simply doing a reboot.
BTW this is not a case of being less creative, this about reviving a franchise that was dead in the water, and the way to do it was to bring in new fans. How many people who saw and liked these movies will want to watch part of the hundreds of hours of Trek that are available out there? My opinion is plenty. I for one took my two young sons to see this movie and they were incredibly happy. Now they are not sure where to begin watching (I own almost all of Trek on DVD).
Another comment: I was extremely happy that they had the guts to blow up Vulcan and then not push a giant Reset Button at the end of the movie. Just like the Enterprise writers did not bring back to life all the people the Xindi killed in Florida.
In conclusion, we have to agree to disagree. Abrams and Co. brought a new Trek movie to screen which was enjoyed by almost everyone. In so doing, they set in motion a plot that drastically changes everything that we have on tape as far as "Trek History" goes, and now they have a free hand to create a bunch of new adventures. I don't think it's a bad thing, but read the first sentence of this paragraph.
And BTW with so many hours of Trek out there, and so many lines spoken (some of them casually dropped in) it would have been impossible for any writer to come up with a good Trek story that was 100% faithful to known canon, IMO.
First Contact took us back to The Moment of First Contact with the Vulcans, and whatever effects Riker and Co. had on Lilly and Cochrane I am sure a lot changed there. When Scotty gives the guy the formula for transparent aluminum. When Sisko goes back and has to assume the person of this great leader (his name eludes me now). All of that changed the timeline we "know".
And I won't go too deep on Enterprise, but how many times did the future agent claim that certain things were not supposed to happen? Especially the Xindi attack, which I am sure took the Enterprise, Earth, and even the Federation down a much different path. Whatever we may think of Enterprise, it is canon.
So, for me, to just think that everything would be exactly as we "remember" it had Nero not destroyed the Kelvin is a little off. Having said that, yes, Abrams and Co. came in, threw a time traveling monkey wrench in canon and are now free to take the ship and crew in brand new adventures with many different variables. Is it wrong? I am not sure but I think this is better than simply doing a reboot.
BTW this is not a case of being less creative, this about reviving a franchise that was dead in the water, and the way to do it was to bring in new fans. How many people who saw and liked these movies will want to watch part of the hundreds of hours of Trek that are available out there? My opinion is plenty. I for one took my two young sons to see this movie and they were incredibly happy. Now they are not sure where to begin watching (I own almost all of Trek on DVD).
Another comment: I was extremely happy that they had the guts to blow up Vulcan and then not push a giant Reset Button at the end of the movie. Just like the Enterprise writers did not bring back to life all the people the Xindi killed in Florida.
In conclusion, we have to agree to disagree. Abrams and Co. brought a new Trek movie to screen which was enjoyed by almost everyone. In so doing, they set in motion a plot that drastically changes everything that we have on tape as far as "Trek History" goes, and now they have a free hand to create a bunch of new adventures. I don't think it's a bad thing, but read the first sentence of this paragraph.
And BTW with so many hours of Trek out there, and so many lines spoken (some of them casually dropped in) it would have been impossible for any writer to come up with a good Trek story that was 100% faithful to known canon, IMO.
Gotta agree with those that understand what this film really way--a giant dump taken on the entire Star Trek franchise.
Deny it all you want, but this movie DID erase EVERYTHING. The original series, all the movies, Next Gen, DS9, Voyager (well that would be no loss), none of them will ever exist now, nor will any stories ever be told that include them. For all intents and purposes, in this new Trek universe, nothing that has ever happened is relevant anymore, except maybe for Enterprise.
Yeah, parts of the movie were really well done. They got the characters right. The movie was fun and at times, quite engaging. But the story was just horribly written--lazy and full of huge plot holes that even the most average of scriptwriters should be embarassed by. It's like they spent all their time on getting the characters and special effects right, and then spent 5 minutes writing a story to use them.
What is so stupid is that throwing away everything was so completely unnecessary. The whole point of having a universe such as Star Trek is that there are infinite stories to tell. But apparently they were too lazy to figure this out and just said "throw it all out so we can do whatever the f' we want."
Like someone else said, why don't we reboot Star Wars next? I know--we can have the emperor send someone back in time to kill off Luke as a kid (making it look like a moisture farming accident of course) and then center all the movies around Leia instead. Unexpectedly, she will be able to save Darth Vader and they will go around the galaxy as a kick-ass father-daughther crime-fighting jedi team! That will sell tickets for sure!
There were plenty of Star Trek stories left to be told without just throwing the entire known universe away. The only reason to do so was just abject laziness, and a general lack of any respect for the Star Trek universe. Oh, and I guess to make craploads of money from non Star Trek fans, which it looks like they are being quite successful with! All hail the pursuit of money over all else!
Deny it all you want, but this movie DID erase EVERYTHING. The original series, all the movies, Next Gen, DS9, Voyager (well that would be no loss), none of them will ever exist now, nor will any stories ever be told that include them. For all intents and purposes, in this new Trek universe, nothing that has ever happened is relevant anymore, except maybe for Enterprise.
Yeah, parts of the movie were really well done. They got the characters right. The movie was fun and at times, quite engaging. But the story was just horribly written--lazy and full of huge plot holes that even the most average of scriptwriters should be embarassed by. It's like they spent all their time on getting the characters and special effects right, and then spent 5 minutes writing a story to use them.
What is so stupid is that throwing away everything was so completely unnecessary. The whole point of having a universe such as Star Trek is that there are infinite stories to tell. But apparently they were too lazy to figure this out and just said "throw it all out so we can do whatever the f' we want."
Like someone else said, why don't we reboot Star Wars next? I know--we can have the emperor send someone back in time to kill off Luke as a kid (making it look like a moisture farming accident of course) and then center all the movies around Leia instead. Unexpectedly, she will be able to save Darth Vader and they will go around the galaxy as a kick-ass father-daughther crime-fighting jedi team! That will sell tickets for sure!
There were plenty of Star Trek stories left to be told without just throwing the entire known universe away. The only reason to do so was just abject laziness, and a general lack of any respect for the Star Trek universe. Oh, and I guess to make craploads of money from non Star Trek fans, which it looks like they are being quite successful with! All hail the pursuit of money over all else!
It erased nothing, Alternate Reality. You still have your movies, the TNG/DS9 still continues on it that universe?
Yeah-you remember that the next time you ask the food dispenser for 'Earl Grey' and nothing comes out.
DevilintheDark
Lieutenant
That's a good point about the Xindi weapon. 7 million Earthlings died that weren't "supposed" to, yet nobody went back in time to prevent that massacre.
the films do exist. in fact the Blu-ray editions of the several Star Trek films will be released for sale in Canada and the US tomorrow
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Pic...ef=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1242088535&sr=8-3
no.
i like Abrams' take on Star Trek and i also like a few of the films starring the original cast from the 1960s television series. nothing will diminish my enjoyment from (re)watching Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan on Blu-ray later this week.
A great many of us that are for this picture are actually old-time fans (myself included). The detractors don't seem to realise this?
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