Timeline Question: Starfleet Academy Academic Year?

[JonnyQuest037]

It’s a four-year institution in such a way that officially the end year is the fifth year of study, eg. 2323, ‘24, ‘25, ‘26, ‘27 for Picard (in other words, always add four to obtain the exact year of graduation). I’m just pointing out that certain start-end combinations are off-limits officially, eg. four years from December 2322 to January 2327.

OK, I see what you were saying.

I found records of other 20-year-olds, some 19-year-olds, and one who was still 18.

Yeah, I have some variance of ages in when people enter the Academy in timeline. Kirk and Spock both enter at 16 by my reckoning, Scotty enters at 19 in midterm (but is granted credit for various frieghters she's shipped out on as a civilian), Christopher Pike, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov all enter at 18, and I have Demora Sulu entering at 17.

 

[MAGolding]

OK, I see what you were saying.

Yeah, I have some variance of ages in when people enter the Academy in timeline. Kirk and Spock both enter at 16 by my reckoning, Scotty enters at 19 in midterm (but is granted credit for various frieghters she's shipped out on as a civilian), Christopher Pike, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov all enter at 18, and I have Demora Sulu entering at 17.

At the present time the qualifications for entrance to the US Naval Academy at Annapolis are:

Basic requirements for admission eligibility is that candidates must be U.S. citizens, between the ages of 17 and 23 as of July 1 of the year they would enter the academy, unmarried, not pregnant, have no dependents, and good moral character. Rank in the top 40% of class is also typically required of applicants.

https://www.studypoint.com/admissions/usna/

In the US military academy at West Point:

Candidates for West Point are evaluated on academic performance, demonstrated leadership potential and physical fitness. All are required to be U.S. citizens and between 17 and 23 years old. West Point cadets must be unmarried, not pregnant, and not under obligation to support any children.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/the-united-states-military-academy-3344741

In the US Air Force academy:

ll prospective cadet candidates must:

• Be at least 17 years old and not have passed their 22 birthday by July 1 of the year they enter the Preparatory School
• Be eligible to be a U.S. citizen
• Be unmarried and have no dependents
• Meet specific medical standards for a commission in the Air Force

https://www.usafa.edu/prep-school/admissions-requirements/

I note that Captain Kirk's biography in The Making of Star Trek states that he entered Starfleet Academy at 17, the minimum age. Chronology writers who want to be consistent with The Making of Star Trek should thus have Kirk enter the Academy aged 17, though they could partially get around that by having Kirk go the Academy and start taking classes when aged 16 but not officially enter the Academy until his 17th birthday, similar to a relative of mine at West Point.

And of course I have a theory that Starfleet might have a special program for genius kids to enter the Academy at younger ages than 17 that Wesley might have been applying for in "Coming of Age", and which a few other Star Trek characters might have used.

I don't think that it is necessary to assume that the star date system was set up to be in agreement with Earth time. It is possible that the length of a stardate unit was determined without reference to Earth time units. Then people may have got into the habit of calling 1,000 stardate units a stardate "year", and used "stardate years" alongside Earth years and the years of other planets to express time periods in years.

Thus I do not think that the passing of particular numbers of stardate units, or the beginnings and ends of seasons of various Star Trek shows, needs to correlate with years and seasons on Earth.

 

[dswynne1]

Then, you add the fact that you can continue your studies at the Academy, even after becoming an officer (such as Kirk and Saavik). Maybe there is an equivalent of graduate school...?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I note that Captain Kirk's biography in The Making of Star Trek states that he entered Starfleet Academy at 17, the minimum age. Chronology writers who want to be consistent with The Making of Star Trek should thus have Kirk enter the Academy aged 17, though they could partially get around that by having Kirk go the Academy and start taking classes when aged 16 but not officially enter the Academy until his 17th birthday, similar to a relative of mine at West Point.

Yeah, I would've loved to have Kirk enter the Academy at 17 as per TMOST, but unfortunately that wasn't possible in my timeline.

I have TWOK taking place in 2283 (to both preserve the 15 year gap between TWOK and "Space Seed" and have the Romulan Ale date make more sense). Nicholas Meyer originally wanted Kirk to be turning 49 in TWOK, so that puts his birth date in 2234. But I still had to have Kirk entering the Academy in 2250 for a number of reasons (the 15-year friendship with Gary Mitchell, and to give Kirk as realistic a career trajectory as possible). So he had to enter at 16 and graduate at 20 to get to the Republic as an Ensign by 2254.

And of course I have a theory that Starfleet might have a special program for genius kids to enter the Academy at younger ages than 17 that Wesley might have been applying for in "Coming of Age", and which a few other Star Trek characters might have used.

Yes, the "Coming of Age" thing was pointed out to me on another chronology thread. I figure that and D.C. Fontana saying in Vulcan's Glory that Spock entered the Academy at age 16 give me enough leeway to say that the minimum age to enter Starfleet Academy is 16 instead of 17.

I don't think that it is necessary to assume that the star date system was set up to be in agreement with Earth time.

Yeah, I don't assume that either. I assume that 1000 Stardate units equal approximately one Earth year, but I also assume that like Roddenberry said, Stardates change due to position in the galaxy and other factors. Basically, I figure that we can't fully understand Stardates because we don't have all of the information neccessary to understand them. So I don't worry about them beyond a certain point.

Then, you add the fact that you can continue your studies at the Academy, even after becoming an officer (such as Kirk and Saavik). Maybe there is an equivalent of graduate school...?

Yes, I assume that there's a one year Command School for anyone who wants to move up to Captain or beyond someday. I was convinced when a number of things in Kirk's biography suddenly made much more sense after I decided to have him spend a year at the Academy after the Farragut / cloud creature incident in 2257. His romance with Carol Marcus now fit much better, and I no longer had to have them break up to make room for other Kirk romances with Areel Shaw or Janet Wallace.

I haven't decided exactly when folks like Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov went to Command School yet, but it shouldn't be too hard to find the space for them to attend. I figure that you can either proceed directly to Command School right after graduating the Academy (like Saavik), or you can go later in your career (like Kirk or Chekov). This also explains why R.M. Merik from "Bread and Circuses" was expelled from the Academy in his fifth year. He was in Command School at the time.

 

[dswynne1]

SNIP!

I haven't decided exactly when folks like Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov went to Command School yet, but it shouldn't be too hard to find the space for them to attend. I figure that you can either proceed directly to Command School right after graduating the Academy (like Saavik), or you can go later in your career (like Kirk or Chekov). This also explains why R.M. Merik from "Bread and Circuses" was expelled from the Academy in his fifth year. He was in Command School at the time.

The only time I can think of would be during the 18-months that the Enterprise underwent a refit (well, at least, in Chekov's case). Sulu and Uhura could have done it before Season 1 of TOS (with Sulu being older than Kirk by 3 years, and Uhura being the same age as Kirk). In fact, Sulu, being a few years older than Kirk, would justify the fact that he had the time to switch from Science to Helm as a specialty. Maybe dual specialist? Hmmm...

 

[Henoch]

In fact, Sulu, being a few years older than Kirk, would justify the fact that he had the time to switch from Science to Helm as a specialty. Maybe dual specialist? Hmmm...

I assume you mean that Sulu was older than Kirk when he was in his Academy cycle, and not actually physically older than Kirk. Sulu is about 5 years younger than Kirk. I see Sulu in the Sciences in WNMHGB, the Enterprise getting a one year refit at Earth, and Sulu going back to the Academy for Command School specializing in pilot training. After the refit possibly during its shakedown cruises prior to the start of the 5YM, Sulu rejoins the ship as its helmsman. Then we get the series first episode a few months later (either The Man Trap or The Corbomite Maneuver depending on broadcast or production order). YMMV.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Star Trek: Discovery has the "Command Training Program", which is an elite organization that Ensign Tilly joins shortly after her graduation/field promotion at the end of Season 1. This fits the idea of a Command School, that folks like Kirk, Sulu, and Saavik may have been involved in after their commissions but before getting a command posting.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The only time I can think of would be during the 18-months that the Enterprise underwent a refit (well, at least, in Chekov's case).

Maybe, but I figure he was likely getting security training during that time. Chekov going sometime between TMP and TWOK makes more sense to me. YMMV.

Sulu and Uhura could have done it before Season 1 of TOS

Maybe. They could go practically any time. Before TOS, between TOS and TMP, or even between TMP and TWOK.

Maybe dual specialist? Hmmm...

Well, he's certainly got multiple hobbies. Why not multiple specialties?

I assume you mean that Sulu was older than Kirk when he was in his Academy cycle, and not actually physically older than Kirk. Sulu is about 5 years younger than Kirk.

Yeah, William Shatner is currently 88 (born March 22, 1931) and George Takei is currently 82 (born April 20, 1937). I'm not sure how anyone could think that Sulu was older than Kirk.

I see Sulu in the Sciences in WNMHGB, the Enterprise getting a one year refit at Earth, and Sulu going back to the Academy for Command School specializing in pilot training. After the refit possibly during its shakedown cruises prior to the start of the 5YM, Sulu rejoins the ship as its helmsman.

That pushes WNMHGB way further back than I'm comfortable with. Right now I have the 5YM mission starting in April 2265, WNM in May, and Combomite in June.

I realize all the rationales about putting WNM before the 5YM (no intro mentioning the 5YM & the interstellar distances involved) but since the Enterprise always moved at the speed of plot anyway, I have them close together. I figure that any refit between WNM and Corbomite was fairly minor.

Then we get the series first episode a few months later (either The Man Trap or The Corbomite Maneuver depending on broadcast or production order).

Production order. It's what makes the most sense to me from both a visual continuity standpoint and a character development standpoint.

Star Trek: Discovery has the "Command Training Program", which is an elite organization that Ensign Tilly joins shortly after her graduation/field promotion at the end of Season 1. This fits the idea of a Command School, that folks like Kirk, Sulu, and Saavik may have been involved in after their commissions but before getting a command posting.

I'll keep an eye out for that when I finish S1 of DSC. I doubt that I'll be incorporating much of DSC into my timeline, though. (No value judgement on the show -- I quite like it! But incorporating it would be a TON of work and move my timeline away from the primarily TOS-oriented timeline it was conceived as.)

 

[Henoch]

Right now I have the 5YM mission starting in April 2265, WNM in May, and Combomite in June.

Wow, that's a lot of changes to occur from May to June and just one month into its 5YM. Ship mods. Uniform change. Personnel changes and rotations. Plus, everyone looks one year older...

Production order. It's what makes the most sense to me from both a visual continuity standpoint and a character development standpoint.

I'm a fan of Stardate Order (but this needs a lot of fudging and retconning several errors away...)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Wow, that's a lot of changes to occur from May to June and just one month into its 5YM. Ship mods. Uniform change. Personnel changes and rotations.

The ship lost a total of 12 crewmen and took a lot of damage over the course of WNMHGB. Plenty of reason to dock at the nearest Starbase for a couple of weeks and get repairs, upgrades, and replacement personnel.

Uniform changes happen whenever they happen. It doesn't take that long to change your clothes, after all.

But the real reason is that I don't want or need to devote an entire year of the 5YM to the Mitchell/Piper/Kelso/Alden era when there are so many other adventures with the classic crew to fit in. A couple of months is plenty of time to fit in all of the adventures you need from that era.

 

[Timo]

Then, you add the fact that you can continue your studies at the Academy, even after becoming an officer (such as Kirk and Saavik). Maybe there is an equivalent of graduate school...?

Here it's good to note that Kirk in two universes is called Cadet and carries no signs of commissioned rank when trying to complete his supposed Command studies by tackling the no-win scenario - while Saavik is an explicit Lieutenant and is never directly addressed as Cadet. We know Kirk continued to work at the Academy after graduation, teaching at Lieutenant rank; no doubt he could also have taken postgraduate studies of various sorts. The more of those, the merrier, so that he never really leaves the Academy until the Farragut... But it seems one can put together a study package for starship command in several ways, some requiring postgraduate studies, some perhaps not.

Against this background, it's also worth noting that nowhere is the Starfleet Academy actually stated to be a four-year ordeal for the students. Instead, study packages ranging from three to five years have been seen, without much comment (beyond "You could be an officer in four years" / "I'll do it in three" / "Oh, okay then, fine with me, whatevah"). So trying to figure out a standard schedule for sailing through the studies is probably the exact wrong way to go.

But the real reason is that I don't want or need to devote an entire year of the 5YM to the Mitchell/Piper/Kelso/Alden era when there are so many other adventures with the classic crew to fit in. A couple of months is plenty of time to fit in all of the adventures you need from that era.

...Why make "WNMHGB" part of the 5YM at all, though?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

...Why make "WNMHGB" part of the 5YM at all, though?

My thought, too. I take WNMHGB as Kirk taking over the end of Pike's mission (explore out beyond the galaxy). I put this right before Kirk's 32 birthday making him 31, the youngest Starship Captain in Starfleet. After wrecking the Enterprise, he is recalled back to Earth for a scheduled refit. A year-ish later, after overseeing the refit and hand-picking his new department heads (Spock/McCoy/Scott), Kirk takes the Enterprise out for his historic 5YM. Apparently, Kirk never could find a good candidate for Security Chief...or Head Chef. YMMV

 

[Lord Garth]

I go with the idea that the crew in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is the one Kirk inherited from the end of Pike's time. Anyone who was in the rest of TOS but not WNMHGB is one of Kirk's people.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Here it's good to note that Kirk in two universes is called Cadet and carries no signs of commissioned rank when trying to complete his supposed Command studies by tackling the no-win scenario

Yes, McCoy's line about about Kirk being a cadet when he took he the KM is the one thing I have to disregard. But since Kirk taking the test in Command School in 2258 fits so well in every other respect, I'm fine with that.

Instead, study packages ranging from three to five years have been seen, without much comment (beyond "You could be an officer in four years" / "I'll do it in three"

If Starfleet Academy is a four year institution and you graduate with the rank of Ensign, you're an officer after four years.

...Why make "WNMHGB" part of the 5YM at all, though?

As I said above, backdating WNM to before the 5YM creates more problems than it solves. You have to have the 31-year-old Kirk make Captain even sooner than he already has, which begins to stretch credibility to the breaking point.

And then you have to shift Kirk's first meeting with Gary Mitchell ("a man I've known for 15 years") back as well to preserve that time reference. If Kirk assumes command in 2265, he met Mitchell in 2250, the same year that they both entered the Academy ("Gary told me you've been friends since he joined the service"). If Kirk assumes command in 2264 or even earlier, you either have to invent an entirely new time, place and reason for Kirk and Mitchell to meet, or have Kirk entering the Academy at 14 or 15.

WNM is important, sure, but not so important that I'm going to tear apart half of my timeline just to place it before the 5YM. It fits into the 5YM just fine, so into the 5YM it goes.

I put this right before Kirk's 32 birthday making him 31, the youngest Starship Captain in Starfleet.

I also have Kirk taking command at 31 in my timeline. Born in 2234, takes command of the E in April 2265, right after he turns 31, breaking the previous record of making Captain at 32 set by Christopher Pike.

I go with the idea that the crew in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is the one Kirk inherited from the end of Pike's time. Anyone who was in the rest of TOS but not WNMHGB is one of Kirk's people.

I certainly think that Kirk's initial crew had some carryovers from Pike's crew. Spock of course, and Scotty and Piper seem likely to be Pike people as well.

BTW, I currently have Mitchell coming on board Pike's Enterprise in 2263. That way he can serve next to Mr. Spock "for years," as per WNM. Dehner says that Kirk requested Mitchell for his first command.* She didn't say that Kirk got him.

(*The USS Saladin, which Kirk got as a Commander.)

As for the refit question, nowhere is it written that a ship automatically gets a refit whenever it switches Captains. "The Cage" takes place in 2254 and WMN takes place in 2265. Plenty of time in those 11 years for the Enterprise to get a refit under Pike's command to explain any set differences between the two episodes. And since there are even more set differences between WNM and "The Corbomite Maneuver," I think it makes a lot more sense to put any refit under Kirk's command after WNM than before it. (And it doesn't have to take up a year or more, either.)

 

[Timo]

If Starfleet Academy is a four year institution and you graduate with the rank of Ensign, you're an officer after four years.

Which is why it's unlikely to be a four-year institution: Kirk would be an officer, then, and not merely could.

The point of the plotline is that it is up to the character to make his own career and future, and it already takes a good character to make it in four years but a superb one to make it in three.

As I said above, backdating WNM to before the 5YM creates more problems than it solves. You have to have the 31-year-old Kirk make Captain even sooner than he already has, which begins to stretch credibility to the breaking point.

Kirk has to be a great war leader at some early point - the bigger a boss he is, the easier this is for him to achieve before the onset of peace, and conversely, the bigger a hero he becomes, the bigger a boss he has the right to be at an early date.

In any case, Kirk is but a Commander in "Where No Man".

And then you have to shift Kirk's first meeting with Gary Mitchell ("a man I've known for 15 years") back as well to preserve that time reference.

Then again, in Starfleet everybody knows everybody, by necessity: if your dad isn't best buddies with his or her dad, you don't get the letter of recommendation in the first place. Kirk could easily have been telling Mitchell lies about girls back when Gary still was receptive to those.

("Gary told me you've been friends since he joined the service")

This is a typical "no later than" comment, though, and secondhand information at that. Might be they were friends before that already.

BTW, I currently have Mitchell coming on board Pike's Enterprise in 2263. That way he can serve next to Mr. Spock "for years," as per WNM. Dehner says that Kirk requested Mitchell for his first command.* She didn't say that Kirk got him.

Works well, especially now that we have a clearer (and more conservative) picture of the relationship between Pike (and thus Spock) and the Enterprise.

As for the refit question, nowhere is it written that a ship automatically gets a refit whenever it switches Captains.

...The argument for NCC-1701 getting those at captain-switching junctures is that she sails into deep space for these supposedly rare and exotic sorties. Other ships might get upgrades every second month; the Enterprise may lead a more structured life. Or then just accumulate a greater backlog, which is then dealt with gradually, as the operating schedule allows.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

And then you have to shift Kirk's first meeting with Gary Mitchell ("a man I've known for 15 years") back as well to preserve that time reference. If Kirk assumes command in 2265, he met Mitchell in 2250, the same year that they both entered the Academy ("Gary told me you've been friends since he joined the service"). If Kirk assumes command in 2264 or even earlier, you either have to invent an entirely new time, place and reason for Kirk and Mitchell to meet, or have Kirk entering the Academy at 14 or 15.

The quote says "since he joined the service", that is for when Mitchell enters the Academy. Kirk may have been 17 at the Academy by that time and could have taken the younger Mitchell under his wing (this means that Mitchell was about 16 though biologically actor Shatner was 6 years older that Lockwood). To add more to the back story, the Kirk family and Mitchell family could have been friends with both fathers serving together in Starfleet. At that time, they knew of each other (not friends yet) which explains Jim seeking out Gary when he enters the Academy. This works even better for a timeline.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Which is why it's unlikely to be a four-year institution: Kirk would be an officer, then, and not merely could.

Pike was trying to talk Kirk into joining Starfleet. That's why he said "could." If Kirk signed up, he could be an officer in four years, and have his own ship a few more after that.

In any case, Kirk is but a Commander in "Where No Man".

If that's how you want to interpret it. For me, it's much easier if Kirk is just a Captain in WNM, and a Commander before the series. YMMV.

This is a typical "no later than" comment, though, and secondhand information at that. Might be they were friends before that already.

Then Dr. Dehner is a lousy listener. Kind of a bad quality for a psychiatrist to have, don't you think?

Works well, especially now that we have a clearer (and more conservative) picture of the relationship between Pike (and thus Spock) and the Enterprise.

If this is a Discovery reference, please don't go into any more detail on this thread. I haven't watched the second season yet, and I don't want to be spoiled on it in my own thread. Particularly when I haven't added any DSC references into my timeline.

The quote says "since he joined the service", that is for when Mitchell enters the Academy. Kirk may have been 17 at the Academy by that time and could have taken the younger Mitchell under his wing (this means that Mitchell was about 16 though biologically actor Shatner was 6 years older that Lockwood).

...Or, you know, they simply met when they both joined Starfleet.

To add more to the back story, the Kirk family and Mitchell family could have been friends with both fathers serving together in Starfleet. At that time, they knew of each other (not friends yet) which explains Jim seeking out Gary when he enters the Academy. This works even better for a timeline.

Maybe yours. I'm not a fan of introducing more convoluted stuff into my timeline when a simple explanation works just as well or better.

 

[EDX]

I don't know if this is at all helpful, but FEDERATION THE FIRST HUNDRED YEARS - often contradicted, but with more than a few ideas to recommend it* - mentions that the first class of graduates from Starfleet Academy passed out on 8th September 2166 (a Monday; clearly somebody was eager to pitch those kids into the working week!).

I have therefore tended to assume that the Academy formally graduates classes in the first week of September (although this Graduation COULD have been postponed due to some unknown complications or precipitated by some emergency; there's no real mention of the exact context underpinning this graduation).


(*I'm especially fond of little Jonathan Archer being told "Someone will be coming to fix the refrigerator" and assuming, like the almighty optimist he is, that Zephram Cochrane has to be that someone when Earths Greatest Scientist shows up later that same day - while we read of Henry Archer's reaction to the event, we might also assume that the actual repairman showed up in due time and was promptly sent packing with a lordly "We got this" - as well as that scene where the Oregonians remain HILARIOUSLY disinterested when Starfleet makes first contact).

 

[Tenacity]

My thought, too. I take WNMHGB as Kirk taking over the end of Pike's mission (explore out beyond the galaxy). I put this right before Kirk's 32 birthday making him 31, the youngest Starship Captain in Starfleet.

In WNMHGB Kirk wore two stripes on his uniform cuff, a commander's insignia. So (maybe) Kirk was given command of the Enterprise while still a commander. After WNMHGB he was promoted to the rank of captain.

Kirk became the youngest captain at 33 (TOS season one).

 

[Nerys Myk]

I figure Gary is about four years younger than Kirk and met him when Kirk was doing a stint at the Academy as instructor or student instructor. They hit it off. Mitchell goes on to serve under Kirk in his first command and later on the Enterprise with Spock under Pike. When Kirk takes command of the E Gary's already been there for a couple years. Win win for Kirk.