Timeline proof.

[Lord Garth]

Slight problem; trials and tribulations happened during season 5 ds9, u put season 5 as both in the classic and also phoenix timeline.

I did list Classic as DS9 Seasons 1-5 and Pheonix as DS9 Seasons 5-7. To be more specific: Season 5 of DS9 before First Contact would be Classic, and Season 5 of DS9 after First Contact would be Pheonix.

"Trials and Tribble-ations" is before the uniform change. Thus, it's before First Contact. FC has a stardate of 50893, so normally I'd place it at the end of DS9 Season 5. But Sisko references a "recent Borg invasion" in "In Purgatory's Shadow", so it seems like First Contact is more towards the middle of DS9 Season 5.

Either way, FC is still after "Trials and Tribble-ations". So, I do have "Trials and Tribble-ations" as Classic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Fun fact: You can't draw a consistent timeline for Voyager. "Before and After", "Year of Hell", "Relativity", "Fury" and others make it impossible to map out the show from start to finish with any consistency.

 

[herofhyrule]

How's that any different from any of the other series with time travel?

 

[Lord Garth]

I've already factored in "Year of Hell". I've even factored in "Parallels". I don't think most people here either can or will go as wacky as I can, so I won't go into it. All I'll get is, "What the Hell are you on?!"

But anyway, I was only missing one piece and SNW recently gave it to me. Nothing I didn't already speculate on my own, but it was still nice for them give us.

 

[JcarlA]

After thinking about this, and not being able to fall asleep, I've now come to the conclusion that there are four main timelines.

Classic Timeline: TOS through FC
Then the Borg go back in time to 2063, which creates the...

Pheonix Timeline: ENT in the "past", FC through PIC in the "present" (from a 2401 point of view)
Centuries later, the Temporal Cold War happens, followed by all-out actual Temporal War; which creates the...

Disco Timeline: DSC S1-S2 and SNW in the "past", DSC S3-S5 in the "present" (from a 3188+ point of view)

In Pheonix 2387, Nero goes back in time and creates Kelvin 2233, which leads to the...
Kelvin Timeline: The three JJ Abrams Movies

By the 32nd Century, the Kelvin Timeline and the Disco Timeline are pretty far apart from each other.

.
.
.
.

So, what goes where?

Classic: TOS, TAS, TMP-TUC ... (time skip) ... TNG, DS9 S1-S5, VOY S1-S3, GEN-FC
Pheonix: ENT ... (time skip) ... FC-NEM, DS9 S5-S7, VOY S3-S7, LD, PRO, PIC
Disco: DSC S1-S2, SNW ... (time skip) ... DSC S3+
Kelvin: Self-Explanatory

That killed some time. How the Hell am I still not tired?

Anyway, like I said before, it's become like how they do it in comics. I could've made TOS and TAS a fifth timeline, but I can't think of a time-travel incident that would cause such a split, so I didn't.

Probably a good time to mention I'm also a huge fan of Back to the Future. I love all of them, but Part II is my favorite. Bet you never would've guessed.

For me, unlike others, this is all still fun. It's like a mind game. I don't let it take over my enjoyment of what I'm watching. So please take this all in the spirit it's intended in. Thanks!

This is how I view the timeline(s) of which I believe 3 exist, and can all be viewed in an order THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY WIPE THE OTHERS FROM EXISTENCE...... Here goes: First we have the PRIME TIMELINE TOS/Movies, TNG/Movies, DS9, VOY, LD, then in 2387 Spock and Nero travel back to 2233 which brings us to... THE KELVIN TIMELINE: ENT, ST09, STID, STB, STP, then at some point (not stated in SNW S2, E3 exactly when) but my conjecture is about 2730 Temporal agents travel back to sometime before the birth of Khan and alter the timeline creating the TEMPORAL WAR TIMELINE: DISC, SNW, PICARD, and eventually by 3000 U.S.S. Discovery arrives. As we've witnessed time and again people and events are repeated in various timelines, though with the above model we may not always see those people or events. Given this model is based on what we've seen on screen and is a viable way to go through and watch everything with the added bonus of it all making sense

 

[Tuskin38]

Disco: DSC S1-S2, SNW ... (time skip) ... DSC S3+

But TNG happened according to DSC Season 3. Or at least the events of Redemption

You people are making this too complicated. There’s three main universes. Prime, Mirror and Kelvin.

So much simpler.

 

[Lord Garth]

But TNG happened according to DSC Season 3. Or at least the events of Redemption

I do think TNG happened in DSC's timeline. And the episode you're referring to was "Unification II".

I was listing what productions happened in each timeline. Not which events.

 

[JcarlA]

But TNG happened according to DSC Season 3. Or at least the events of Redemption

You people are making this too complicated. There’s three main universes. Prime, Mirror and Kelvin.

So much simpler.

I find my interpretation quite simple. At least it is to me.

 

[Lord Garth]

I find my interpretation quite simple. At least it is to me.

Yup. I disagree with some of what you have, since I have things a bit different from you, but I got it.

Though now you see why I didn't go hairier. The truth is, "Parallels" explains away every single inconsistency in Star Trek ever, from 1964 up to Present Day.

 

[JcarlA]

But TNG happened according to DSC Season 3. Or at least the events of Redemption

You people are making this too complicated. There’s three main universes. Prime, Mirror and Kelvin.

So much simpler.

Yes TNG (the events of Unification pt1,2) did happen, albeit not EXCACTLY as we saw them via when we originally watched back in the 90s. To this point, the stardate they quote is vastly different.....

 

[JcarlA]

Yup. I disagree with some of what you have, since I have things a bit different from you, but I got it.

Though now you see why I didn't go hairier. The truth is, "Parallels" explains away every single inconsistency in Star Trek ever, from 1964 up to Present Day.

Yes but I see that event as an isolated event, at the end of which everything and person is over it and ready for next week's adventure, just like miriam of other time travel related shenanigans.

 

[Pauln6]

Given the musical episode of SNW, I am more convinced that the writers have a better handle on canon than many Trek writers. They've gone so far off piste with the gorn, I'm wondering if a temporal correction might be used to steer them back on course to Arena.

 

[Timofnine]

I just had a thought. If the destruction of Romulus is undone in a final JJ Abrams based movie, resetting the prime Star Trek universe back to normal, this would remove the Picard series timeline from being ‘prime’ and reduce it to a ‘darker’ parallel reality in the Trek multiverse. The result of this would be Seven of Nine *not* becoming Captain of the Enterprise in the prime timeline, though.

However, Seven could *still* become Captain of a new prime universe Enterprise, not the renamed Titan. It could be shown that it was always her fate to command the flagship, similar as to how it was also always Kirk’s fate to command the Enterprise.

They could even do all of this in a TNG/JJ-Trek crossover event movie, bookending Abrams alternate timeline(s).

 

[JoeZhang]

How do the timelines featuring James R Kirk and a Federation where the Klingons join the Federation fit into this?

Oh and that one where humans conquer Vulcan?

I want a diagram on my desk by 1800 explaining this.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I just had a thought. If the destruction of Romulus is undone in a final JJ Abrams based movie, resetting the prime Star Trek universe back to normal

We know the Kelvin Universe continues to exist into the TNG era, since we see a holo of a temporal agent originating there in that era in Disco S3. We also know Romulus can't be saved in Prime, as it's absence affects ST: Picard and results in Vulcan becoming Ni'Var by the time of Discovery's third season.

What SNW has done is give an excuse for people who really want it but otherwise pretending everything in one continuity. Otherwise the Lower Decks crossover would have been more about the Enterprise looking different than Spock's out-of-character actions.

 

[Timofnine]

We know the Kelvin Universe continues to exist into the TNG era, since we see a holo of a temporal agent originating there in that era in Disco S3. We also know Romulus can't be saved in Prime, as it's absence affects ST: Picard and results in Vulcan becoming Ni'Var by the time of Discovery's third season.

Discovery could be multiverse too. This could be the opportunity to ‘soft reboot’ Star Trek so that it can be united as a franchise and continue on in to the 25th century without the heavy baggage of the most recent Star Trek series and movies.

I have said this here before, Ethan Peck Spock can rescue his sister in the Discovery finale and reset the Discoverse, not *totally* erasing or wiping it.

 

[fireproof78]

I just had a thought. If the destruction of Romulus is undone in a final JJ Abrams based movie, resetting the prime Star Trek universe back to normal, this would remove the Picard series timeline from being ‘prime’ and reduce it to a ‘darker’ parallel reality in the Trek multiverse. The result of this would be Seven of Nine *not* becoming Captain of the Enterprise in the prime timeline, though.

Would Kelvin cease to exist since the destruction of Romulus is the inciting event for Nero and Spock? Because, even though it has upsides with Seven, I prefer the Kelvin timeline to continue on.

 

[Timofnine]

Would Kelvin cease to exist since the destruction of Romulus is the inciting event for Nero and Spock? Because, even though it has upsides with Seven, I prefer the Kelvin timeline to continue on.

This is Star Trek, not Back to the Future.

Kelvin/JJ-verse *could* in theory continue as a multiverse continuity, as it already does so, currently running alongside the prime timeline having ‘splintered’ off as a result of Nero’s temporal incursion. If the temporal incursion is prevented though….

The mirror universe from the original series (and DS9) is always there too, for example, being another example of how two realities or continuities can exist side by side…. Parallel universes. Speaking of which, TNG’s Parallels is another example on a much larger scale. In fact, I blame Brannon Braga for all of this. I do not think that all parallel or alternate realities are created by a temporal incursion though, this is what sets the universes seen in Parallels and TOS apart from the Kelvin/JJ-verse. Therefore, it *is* theoretically possible that the Kelvin universe could cease to exist in a temporal reset by a faction in the Temporal Cold War.

I am unsure how the quantum mechanics work exactly in regards to temporal relativity, perhaps Back to the Future got it right after all?

There is also the possibility that anti-time could come in to play, or some other plot device old or new. The Kelvin/JJ-verse could even start ‘running backwards’ from a characters perspective… such as in Voyager’s Before and After. Which Kelvin character would you choose to experience this, seeing as they are unlikely to use Kes again? It could be a Keenser centric movie.

The Kelvin/JJ-verse could even run backwards in the same way as it did in TNG’s All Good Thing’s… again, this would be an anti time event which could be caused by Enterprise’s (including the JJ Enterprise) from different timelines converging in the same fashion causing a temporal anti time flashpoint.

Another example of a timeline reset would be as shown during events in Voyager Year of Hell, which was also the result of a temporal incursion, but this time by Annorax though still in a similar vain as to how Nero changed history. Annorax only wanted to get his wife back though, so different circumstances.

Deep Space Nine’s Children of Time also sadly showed a temporal ‘reset’, after the USS Defiant was prevented from crashing 200 years in the past - this would be like preventing or removing the needs for Nero’s Borg enhanced mining ship from travelling back in time to destroy Vulcan. We could also consider what happened to Molly’s existence during the events of Time’s Orphan.

Oh yeah… I forgot about Time’s Arrow and the movie First Contact…

City on the Edge of Forever may also be a good template for the next Kelvin/JJ-verse movie. The story could even involve the Guardian of Forever again if Harlan Ellison‘s estate agrees? It could be a time travelling romp ending with the climax of preventing the destruction of Romulus and Remus.

 

[fireproof78]

Kelvin/JJ-verse *could* in theory continue as a multiverse continuity, as it already does so, currently running alongside the prime timeline having ‘splintered’ off as a result of Nero’s temporal incursion. If the temporal incursion is prevented though….

There's no reason for it to continue.

 

[Timofnine]

There's no reason for it to continue.

Then it would be a bitter sweet ending to the Kelvin timeline, a real tear jerker.

But they could have a fade in to a CGI recreation of the original series characters, digitally recreated in a scene reminiscent of events from the end of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country as the Kelvin crew temporally ‘fade out’; this would be a *real* love letter to the fans. Shatner could even be in this scene (or other scenes?) in some capacity, if not in a scene as an alternate reality ‘old Kirk’ or as the Kelvin Enterprise’s chef… or even as the Enterprise series ‘Future Guy’. I guess that Shatner could always be digitally de-aged too as ‘prime’ Kirk once more, such as in the ‘temporal transition back in to the prime timeline’ scene above.