Spoilers Timeless: Season 1 on NBC

[Romulan_spy]

Clearly we're meant to be learning that Garcia Flynn is not the simplistic villain we thought, that his motives are personal and empathetic, that in his own mind he believes he's doing a good thing. We learned in the Watergate episode that he's trying to destroy Rittenhouse because they killed his wife and child, so we know he's a man who will tear reality apart to save the people he loves. This episode was, in part, about showing us Flynn's side of the struggle, walking a mile (or a few decades) in his shoes, so it makes sense that he'd have a sympathetic motivation that would reveal more about who he is as a person. That's a kind of story I find interesting, flipping the script and turning the antagonist into the protagonist.

I get the impression that at some point, our heroes, might "switch sides" and help Flynn. It just seems like the show is heading in that direction. I mean, at some point, our heroes are going to find out that Rittenhouse has nefarious plans. They are probably going to realize that Rittenhouse is using them, that their trips back in time are designed to protect Rittenhouse, not save history per se. And they seem to gradually be learning that Flynn is not so evil after all. Everything seems to be adding up to them eventually deciding that they need to stop Rittenhouse. Now maybe they won't join Flynn outright. I think it would make for more interesting story telling if they did not. I suspect that they will come to agree with Flynn's goal of stopping Rittenhouse but won't agree with Flynn's methods.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I've been suspecting something like that would happen since the first or second episode.

 

[Christopher]

I get the impression that at some point, our heroes, might "switch sides" and help Flynn. It just seems like the show is heading in that direction.

Maybe do an Alias sort of thing where they pretend to still be working against Flynn but are actually acting as moles/double agents against Rittenhouse.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Maybe do an Alias sort of thing where they pretend to still be working against Flynn but are actually acting as moles/double agents against Rittenhouse.

Yes, I think that is very likely since if they were to openly stand up to Rittenhouse, there would be serious consequences. We saw what Rittenhouse did to Rufus when he did not want to play ball. So it would be better for them to pretend to go along with things in the present but secretly work to undermine Rittenhouse in the past similar to what happened in the "Nixon tapes" episode when they helped the girl escape and lied to Rittenhouse to cover it up.

 

[Mr Awe]

I think we all know that's objectively the case. But it's also a fact that is routinely and nigh-universally ignored by time travel stories. It's just part of the basic conceits we're being asked to suspend disbelief about.

Trust me, I get that and I've conceded that point.

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

It's funny... When I hear the name "Rittenhouse," the main thing I know it from is Diane Carey's novel Star Trek: Dreadnought!, which was about exposing a massive conspiracy led by an admiral named Rittenhouse. What is it about that name and conspiracies?

 

[Mr Awe]

It's funny... When I hear the name "Rittenhouse," the main thing I know it from is Diane Carey's novel Star Trek: Dreadnought!, which was about exposing a massive conspiracy led by an admiral named Rittenhouse. What is it about that name and conspiracies?

I read that novel so long ago (whenever is was first published) that I had totally forgotten about that!

Maybe in Timeless the twist will be that it's Written House, the house that was written into history?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rottenhouse.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ridden horse

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ribbon Hose.

 

[Morpheus 02]

There were other conceptual problems. What was that nonsense about the astronauts being in danger of running out of air in just a few hours? What does a loss of communication have to do with their air supply, which would have to be sufficient to sustain them for the several days it would take to get back to Earth? And as soon as contact was restored, suddenly the whole air-loss issue was forgotten and they went ahead with the Moon walk. That was just dumb. It's like some network suit ordered them to slap on the "running out of air" lines to create more suspense and a ticking clock even though it made no damn sense whatsoever.

Rufus's line about Katherine Johnson suddenly having a movie about her in the altered timeline was a bit incongruous, given that a real movie about her and her colleagues, Hidden Figures, is coming out next month, with Taraji P. Henson as Johnson.

I am assuming that movie about Katherine Johnson happened for Rufus DECADES earlier... Rather than having 2 generations passed

But to me, it stunk that they aired the episode in December, rather than in January when the movie came out....would've been a great boost for the movie.

 

[Trekker4747]

I just watched the episode with them stranded in the 18th century. Pretty good episode and nice to see a "character episode" as opposed to a mission episode focusing on whatever temporal corruption being attempted. Also nice to see the conflict in the group to be, somewhat, resolved and for them to work as a team. I liked them reading the "Wikipedia" entry about the time machine and them written by the 18th century soldier/General/whatever, and their reaction to 18th century medicinal practices.

The "message in a bottle" with the vacuum delivery pod was interesting, as was the "kink" with it failing and what's her name back in the present having to figure out the message herself.

A good episode, will watch the moon-landing episode later tonight, look forward to that one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If I am right about how time works here, and they don't follow Flynn, but just head out somewhere random and then come back, they will return to a timeline with no Flynn.

(Actually that's true for every mission.)

But if they are already in the past when Flynn sets out next, the two ships would be out of sync, and wind up trying to call distant timelines from each other their home.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm guessing the Rittenhouse organization was probably named after (from a production standpoint) and possibly even founded by (from an in-universe standpoint) famed American astronomer, clockmaker, surveyor, inventor, mathematician, abolitionist speaker, first director of the US Mint; and friend/the admired of George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, David Rittenhouse of Pennsylvania.

He may have started the organization with good intentions and it spiraled out of control over time, or, given his polymath status and advanced scientific concepts (especially regarding timekeeping and solar body motion and observation —both time travel relevant) he may represent a future scientist who was stranded in the past, perhaps Anthony Bruhl himself when he was stranded in the past on the lifeboat's first test mission (I don't recall if they mentioned when he was stranded) or at some undetermined time in the future. What if Bruhl created the very thing he is now so desperate to destroy and he's trying to unravel that mistake? He tried to go back and prevent the incident that caused it all but now Rittenhouse is trying to prevent the changes.

Given the way the producers like to name the characters based on references, it should be noted that Rittenhouse worked to complete the survey of the Mason-Dixon Line (the first part named after Charles Mason) and his precision surveying techniques served as a guideline for them prior to that.

He also created clocks and orreries (scale models of the solar system) which could be the thing on the mantle that the Rittenhouse key opened in last night's episode.

 

[Mr Awe]

Interesting stuff about David Rittenhouse. Also, interesting to note that according to Wikipedia, Charles Mason had a secret project he wanted to discuss with Benjamin Franklin. He died before he could discuss it and nothing is known about it.

I enjoyed the Bonnie and Clyde episode. Mostly it was fun but filler. We learned a very small amount of information but mainly not through the actions of the protagonists, at least not the ones onscreen. I guess they learned the key came from Ford. But, mostly it was off-screen investigation and then Flynn winning the day and opening the box.

Hopefully the Fall finale next week is good. The episode information indicates that the crew begins to wonder if they're fighting for the right side. My prediction, they do join forces with Flynn because they are both against Rittenhouse. However, the team wants to preserve the US whereas Flynn doesn't seem to have that as a requirement. I'm not sure if Flynn is actively trying to subvert the US or whether he just doesn't care either way. In other words, Flynn might want to destroy Rittenhouse at all costs and isn't interested in taking the time to figure out how to do that and save the US.

At any rate, guessing they'll have a limited partnership where they agree about getting rid of Rittenhouse but disagree over the acceptable means of accomplishing that goal.

Mr Awe

 

[intrinsical]

I think a temporary alliance with Flynn is not too far fetched. However unless something changes, I believe Flynn's current methods are too extreme to be acceptable to the team. Either Flynn changes his methodology, or Rittenhouse turns out to be a much larger threat that extreme methods can be seen as justifiable.

 

[Romulan_spy]

At any rate, guessing they'll have a limited partnership where they agree about getting rid of Rittenhouse but disagree over the acceptable means of accomplishing that goal.

That is my prediction as well. Since the two teams will strongly oppose each other's methods, there should be lots of drama.

 

[SiddFinch1]

I agree with the idea that the trio will wind up opposing Rittenhouse and supporting Flynns goals but not supporting Flynns methods

 

[Mr Awe]

I really enjoyed the Fall finale of Timeless. I think the antagonists were particularly well written in this one. Flynn absolutely knew what it would take to get each member of the team to go along with him. His motivations were very believable While I liked his idea that he didn't like what he had become, it wasn't believable that he was going to do all of this to get his family back, see them once, and then walk out. But, maybe that's what he really thought at the moment. The realization that his family would think he is a monster if they knew what he had done.

As for our team, this episode did a great job at showing how they've changed over the course of their journey. They all did things in this story they wouldn't have considered at the beginning of the series.

(David?) Rittenhouse was a great character too. Excellently written and portrayed by Shimmerman. We learned about what he believed through his son and his own actions. He's no dummy. We see that he knows how to manipulate and read people like Arnold. He saw through the ploy very quickly and it was entirely believable. While I believe Rittenhouse the secret organization will remain shadowy in terms of the specifics of what they do, we got a great look at the mindset and the person who started it out.

The resolution was thematically perfect by having Rufus who, in Rittenhouse's eyes, as a slave would be less than peasant and unable to alter his own course, come in and thoroughly alter the course of history. Rittenhouse wouldn't have even conceived of the possibility and, thus, it was something he overlooked.

When I saw the son, I thought back to Terminator 3 (?) where they couldn't kill the guy because of his family. Obviously, that didn't stop Flynn!

Anyone else think they should've just taken the son to our present? That way they would not have to kill him but also not worry about him following in his father's footsteps! I thought Lucy was going to suggest that in the confrontation at the end. I'm sure Agent Christopher could've arranged a foster home.

Going forward, I wonder where this will take things. I had hypothesized earlier in this thread that getting rid of Rittenhouse without drastically affecting history would probably be impossible. After all, if Rittenhouse is this very powerful organization that pulls the strings through out the life of the US, if you remove Rittenhouse, the effects should be freaking huge! It's simple logic, large effects are the definition of a powerful organization. I thought the way the story was going to end was going to be on a cliffhanger with a tease where they return to the present and it's completely different in a WTF way! I guess we'll have to and see.

It's possible that having a powerful group steering things behind the scenes actually made the U.S. stronger. It's possible that the team will have to grapple with issues where Rittenhouse has done lots of bad things but perhaps the U.S. as a whole is better off with it? Certainly history would have to be dramatically different and Lucy will have to deal with that. Or, maybe the son does follow in his Dad's footsteps? Or maybe slightly different footsteps so that Rittenhouse still exists but not quite the same?

It'll be interesting to see which direction they decide to go!

Mr Awe

 

[LJones41]

I really enjoyed this last episode. But I have one problem. If the Rittenhouse in this episode is supposed to be David Rittenhouse, I do not recall him ever having a son. I believe the series may have committed a major historical blooper.