Time Travel Question

[pimp]

Hi

There is bound to be a time travel episode in any of the Star Trek shows, but i have always been confused by it. lets say i was wearing my best suite and i accidentally dropped coffee on to it, I then go back in time to prevent my self from spilling coffee all over my self. But here is where i get confused, the second i thought about going back in time to prevent this from happening it would have never happened in the first place or another way of looking at it, is that it would be like a loop that would go on for ever.

can anyone explain or have some theory???

 

[scotthm]

But here is where i get confused, the second i thought about going back in time to prevent this from happening it would have never happened in the first place or another way of looking at it, is that it would be like a loop that would go on for ever.

can anyone explain or have some theory???

Yes. You can think about travelling back in time, but you can't really do it, so there is no loop.

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[zenophite]

Hi

There is bound to be a time travel episode in any of the Star Trek shows, but i have always been confused by it. lets say i was wearing my best suite and i accidentally dropped coffee on to it, I then go back in time to prevent my self from spilling coffee all over my self. But here is where i get confused, the second i thought about going back in time to prevent this from happening it would have never happened in the first place or another way of looking at it, is that it would be like a loop that would go on for ever.

can anyone explain or have some theory???

in the spirit of the question i would say that you can't really change your own personal past. any past that you go into would split off and it would actually be an alternate "you" that you prevented from spilling his coffee.

 

[Gepard]

The only version that could happen and not either contradict itself or create a parallel universe or soemthing is, to use the OP's example, a timeline where you travel back to stop yourself from spilling the coffee, only by showing up you accidentally bump into yourself, thus causing the coffee to spill in the first place. In other words, if you hadn't travelled into the past, you never would have spilled the coffee, but since you did spill it, you were always going to travel back in time, and you would always be the one to bump into yourself, thus causing you to think "hey, maybe I could go back in time..."

 

[tharpdevenport]

I think this is what is called a Temporal Paradox. But the thing is, to make entertaining television, you got to ignore certain things. There that, and also no sound in outer space, but you hear sounds all the time ("Firefly" actually stuck to the no sounds in space reality, interestingly, and let the music and special effects tell the story in those areas).

 

[scotthm]

The only version that could happen and not either contradict itself or create a parallel universe or soemthing is, to use the OP's example...

It seems to me if one could travel to the past and meet one's self that it would require you to be able to create matter out of nothing, since there would now be two of you in the universe without any net loss of energy.

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[Gepard]

It seems to me if one could travel to the past and meet one's self that it would require you to be able to create matter out of nothing, since there would now be two of you in the universe without any net loss of energy.

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I doubt it. It would be the same matter, it's just in two places at the same moment. Then the older you just progresses forward in time to become the later version of you.

 

[The Borg Queen]

It seems to me if one could travel to the past and meet one's self that it would require you to be able to create matter out of nothing, since there would now be two of you in the universe without any net loss of energy.

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I doubt it. It would be the same matter, it's just in two places at the same moment. Then the older you just progresses forward in time to become the later version of you.

But energy can't be created or destroyed, so at any specific, exact moment in time there would be more energy and matter than at any other exact, specific moment in time.

When you take into account effects of entropy, even just being there would mean generating previously non-existent kinetic energy in the air by heat exchange/breathing/etc.

 

[pimp]

I found out that time travel is possible and has not been proven wrong Einstein said that if you traveled around the universe fast enough you would come back before you left. But you cannot change your own past, so if i went back in time and killed someone i hated that person will still exist in my own time line. Anyways I'm going to start to confuse things just look at this clip and there are more on you tube just look for them.

Michio Kaku: Time Travel, Parallel Universes, and Reality

Time Travel

First Time Machine

 

[Jadzia]

We explored this last month

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=59423

 

[John Picard]

One time I put instant coffee in the microwave and traveled back in time. WHEW!

 

[Brent]

If you believe in multi-universes, than what you say is possible, it would create an alternate reality where you didn't spill coffee, of course if you believe in multi-universe, then there is already a reality where you didn't spill coffee.

 

[Silvercrest]

I like the theory that says if the time machine is ever invented, people will start monkeying with the past. Eventually one of them will change something crucial, and the result will prevent the time machine from being invented. This is an inevitability. Therefore time travel is impossible!

 

[Meredith]

it fails cause someone tried to go kill hitler.

 

[Lindley]

I like the theory that says if the time machine is ever invented, people will start monkeying with the past. Eventually one of them will change something crucial, and the result will prevent the time machine from being invented. This is an inevitability. Therefore time travel is impossible!

Unless you suppose that time travel is only possible back to the time at which the first time machine was invented.

 

[scotthm]

Therefore time travel is impossible!

Unless you suppose that time travel is only possible back to the time at which the first time machine was invented.

I don't buy that either.

Suppose that you invent a time machine in 2010, and use it to travel to 2020. You spend the next five years in the future, and then in 2025 travel to 2030. After a while, you travel back to 2021, where you can meet yourself during your first time trip. At this point, there would be two of you in the universe, meaning that matter has been created out of nothing.

I don't think there can be any backwards travel in time at all.

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[Lindley]

At this point, there would be two of you in the universe, meaning that matter has been created out of nothing.

Ah, but matter can be created out of energy, thus demonstrating that the "matter cannot be created or destroyed" mantra is only true if you look at it in a wider context. Given that, I see no reason why matter moving between two times would be problematic; it's not being created or destroyed in the context of the entire timeline.

Not that there aren't plenty of other problems with time travel, I just don't think that's the biggest.

 

[Silvercrest]

Yes, but mine is funnier.

 

[scotthm]

At this point, there would be two of you in the universe, meaning that matter has been created out of nothing.

Ah, but matter can be created out of energy, thus demonstrating that the "matter cannot be created or destroyed" mantra is only true if you look at it in a wider context. Given that, I see no reason why matter moving between two times would be problematic; it's not being created or destroyed in the context of the entire timeline.

What energy was used to create this extra matter (you)? The energy you used to power your time machine still exists in the earlier time, and now so does the duplicate you, so you have both the original energy and the new matter that's been created. The two yous then destroy the time machine when you realize how dangerous it is, and go on about your merry way. You've just added matter to the universe, at no net cost!

So... time travel into the past is not possible.

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[Lindley]

At this point, there would be two of you in the universe, meaning that matter has been created out of nothing.

Ah, but matter can be created out of energy, thus demonstrating that the "matter cannot be created or destroyed" mantra is only true if you look at it in a wider context. Given that, I see no reason why matter moving between two times would be problematic; it's not being created or destroyed in the context of the entire timeline.

What energy was used to create this extra matter (you)? The energy you used to power your time machine still exists in the earlier time, and now so does the duplicate you, so you have both the original energy and the new matter that's been created. The two yous then destroy the time machine when you realize how dangerous it is, and go on about your merry way. You've just added matter to the universe, at no net cost!

So... time travel into the past is not possible.

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You miss my point. Any matter that is "created" in the past is "destroyed" simultaneously in the future. Thus balance is maintained. The energy thing was just a parallel observation.

No different than moving matter around in our usual 3 dimensions, really. Just a bit more loopy.

Destroying the time machine you used would be something you'd only do if you were really, really angry at the universe. Or wanted to see what happened. Either way, probably not good.