Time and the Rani

[Jim Gamma]

Having just watched Time and the Rani, aside from the obvious (Tenth Planet), I have now watched every regeneration episode.

I was actually very impressed by this episode - but I often see it gets lambasted by a lot of fans. I thought it was exactly what it was intended to be - funny, a great introduction to McCoy, and an intriguing new enemy (all right, so maybe the Rani didn't get anywhere near enough screen time later on, but that's beside the point).

So... help me out here - why do people dislike this episode so much?

 

[Orac]

I think some of the hate is from Colin Baker fans who were disappointed he didn't get a proper regeneration scene..

 

[DWF]

I liked it too but I do know that alot of fans hate Mel and her screaming possibly without MEl more people would like the story. But I liked the whole thing it was a great start to the season it's too bad the rest of the season wasn't all that great.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I loved the booby traps and The Seventh Doctor's rummaging of the wardrobe, but everything else was painful to watch, especially The Rani's masquerade of Mel. *shudder*

 

[Lonemagpie]

I loved the booby traps and The Seventh Doctor's rummaging of the wardrobe, but everything else was painful to watch, especially The Rani's masquerade of Mel. *shudder*

That's the best bit!

Which tells you how bad it is, when a scene that belongs in a Two Ronnies sketch is the highlight. Otherwise, the music is shit, the filming rubbish, the guest acting hopeless, the script stupid, the Rani changed beyond recognition, and McCoy (obviously) crap.

I'm being diplomatic, obviously.

 

[Rarewolf]

I loved the booby traps and The Seventh Doctor's rummaging of the wardrobe, but everything else was painful to watch, especially The Rani's masquerade of Mel. *shudder*

I've met Bonnie and Kate again in the last month. Not together sadly.

The odd thing is Kate pulls it off. Imagine her trying to do Peri, or Ace. She'd really stuggle with that.

Andrew Cartmel was also at the event (done especially for Bonnie - it sold out in 14 hours!) and not developing Mel more was one of his biggest regrets. As he had a new Doctor to estabish, and Mel was essentially inherited, he didn't then think it was his place to alter her character, or play on her strengths as a computer programmer.

Kate is one of the most surprisingly down to Earth people I've ever met. She talks with the same posh voice, it rather threw me she was so normal.

Bonnie is probably more popular now as Mel than she was back then! The audios redeme her somewhat, many of us hope she gets a chance in her incredibly busy work schedule to do some more.

 

[Cutter John]

Yeah, it was really just the general silliness, and of course Mel and her screaming. Hell I remember back when this was first premiered at our DW club meeting people in the audience were laughing and yelling at the screen for her to shut up.

 

[23skidoo]

I think it's just the general silliness of the piece that annoys people. Also, when Sylvester McCoy was cast it got the same reaction people gave when Catherine Tate was cast as Donna Noble - McCoy was best known at the time for being a comedian who tended to do things like put ferrets down his trousers and hammer nails into his nose (seriously - he's in one of the the Secret Policeman's Ball comedy films), and his best-known TV work was Vision On, an early 1970s show for hearing impaired children. So to say aspects of this first story affirmed some fan's concerns was an understatement. (Thankfully, McCoy found his footing VERY quickly as his second story, Paradise Towers - just coming out on DVD around now - shows.)

There was also a lot of upset over the fact Colin Baker didn't do a proper regeneration sequence and for the first time we never were given a straight reasoning for why the Doctor changed (leading to some rather silly speculation like he fell off his exercise bike). Back in 1987 fans weren't privy to a lot of the behind the scenes drama related to Baker's firing by the BBC, and why he understandably didn't want to come back. So they just thought it was sloppy and more signs of the rapidly-becoming-more-hated-with-every-passing-second producer John Nathan-Turner outstaying his welcome (it was around this time one of the Doctor Who fanzines mounted a well-publicized campaign to have JNT fired).

Now it's 24 years later, but there's still some residual dislike for Time of the Rani because of a lot of these reasons. As a story, I think it has some good ideas. Its execution falls flat. I'm hesitant to blame any actor for this. Bonnie Langford was a bigtime victim of the Catherine Tate effect, only she was never given the chance to redeem herself, even though she did some great work later in the season - but not in Time and the Rani.

I agree with Rarewolf, though - the Big Finish audios have provided Bonnie Langford with opportunity to shine as Mel in a way TV never allowed.

Alex

 

[Sindatur]

I actually really enjoyed Bonnie Langford in the unbound Story "He Jests at Scars", even before the twist ending

Michael Jayston was really cool too, and the story was a great What If, that Newbies often ask.

Back on Topic:
I mostly enjoyed Time and The Rani, there was some CHEEZ, but, nonetheless, there was some good parts, too.

There's very few Dr. Who stories I actually, passionately dislike. (Both Classic and NuWho)

 

[VDCNI]

I loved the booby traps and The Seventh Doctor's rummaging of the wardrobe, but everything else was painful to watch, especially The Rani's masquerade of Mel. *shudder*

I've met Bonnie and Kate again in the last month. Not together sadly.

The odd thing is Kate pulls it off. Imagine her trying to do Peri, or Ace. She'd really stuggle with that.

Andrew Cartmel was also at the event (done especially for Bonnie - it sold out in 14 hours!) and not developing Mel more was one of his biggest regrets. As he had a new Doctor to estabish, and Mel was essentially inherited, he didn't then think it was his place to alter her character, or play on her strengths as a computer programmer.

Kate is one of the most surprisingly down to Earth people I've ever met. She talks with the same posh voice, it rather threw me she was so normal.

Bonnie is probably more popular now as Mel than she was back then! The audios redeme her somewhat, many of us hope she gets a chance in her incredibly busy work schedule to do some more.

There's an interview where O'Mara (who was appearing in Dynasty at the time) says she contacted JNT asking to be brought back as she was tired of the sun and luxury and wanted a wet muddy quarry in England! Apparently she was very uncomfortable doing the Mel stuff but Langford wasn't bothered by it.

I don't mind Time & The Rani. The main issue is that the writers (Pip & Jane Baker) write pretty straightforward action adventure stories without any layers or subtlety so it really depends on the characters/actors to give it something extra and McCoy isn't comfortable enough in the role yet and Mel is just written as a generic companion so Langford can't do much with her. Some of the production work is good with great effects for 80's Who but then you get a scene with them hiding in a pipe to which they seem to have wrapped some tinsel around in an attempt to make it look futuristic!

McCoy gets much better and Bonnie is great in the audios and better in the next three stories, in Delta she seems much happier in the Earth setting unlike Rani's rather dull alien planet and Paradise & Dragonfire where she has more interesting characters to bounce off of.

I hope she can do some more audios in the future.

 

[Cutter John]

I do remember we were all pretty wowed by the new opening, which at the time was quite flasky and high tech.

And actually a lot of organised fandom in the US was privy to the goings on at the BBC, thanks to club newsletters and tne like, and thought Colin got a raw deal. We were mostly just releived that the show was back.

But y'know despite not liking the episode, I'm still kind of a Rani fan. She was a great character despite the piss-poor stories she was given.

 

[ITL]

I know I've watched this serial (I watched every serial as they were broadcast from around '73 to the cancellation), but for the life of me I can't remember any of it...

 

[Jim Gamma]

ITL: Well, it's maybe not the most memorable story ever.

Thanks everyone for your answers - I actually like some of the silliness (which probably says more about me than the show itself LOL).

I guess JNT would've had to do something really spectacular to win people over then?

(Never having seen DW the first time around, I'm very removed from the whole thing, so I'm intrigued by why JNT was so reviled... mostly because of the CBaker years I guess? Davison seemed pretty well-loved...)

 

[Mr Awe]

I Now it's 24 years later, but there's still some residual dislike

There's a boatload more than a "residual dislike." The story was horrible all around.

Mr Awe

 

[Cutter John]

I guess JNT would've had to do something really spectacular to win people over then?

(Never having seen DW the first time around, I'm very removed from the whole thing, so I'm intrigued by why JNT was so reviled... mostly because of the CBaker years I guess? Davison seemed pretty well-loved...)

I can only speak for US fans, but apart from some early rumblings about 'Trial of a Timelord' ("We waited 18 months for this?!") JNT was still fairly well liked. It wasn't until the end of Seven's first series that the goodwill began to slip. Things really went downhill after the cancellation.

 

[Sindatur]

I guess JNT would've had to do something really spectacular to win people over then?

(Never having seen DW the first time around, I'm very removed from the whole thing, so I'm intrigued by why JNT was so reviled... mostly because of the CBaker years I guess? Davison seemed pretty well-loved...)

I can only speak for US fans, but apart from some early rumblings about 'Trial of a Timelord' ("We waited 18 months for this?!") JNT was still fairly well liked. It wasn't until the end of Seven's first series that the goodwill began to slip. Things really went downhill after the cancellation.

Trial of a Timelord was reviled?

 

[DWF]

I guess JNT would've had to do something really spectacular to win people over then?

(Never having seen DW the first time around, I'm very removed from the whole thing, so I'm intrigued by why JNT was so reviled... mostly because of the CBaker years I guess? Davison seemed pretty well-loved...)

I can only speak for US fans, but apart from some early rumblings about 'Trial of a Timelord' ("We waited 18 months for this?!") JNT was still fairly well liked. It wasn't until the end of Seven's first series that the goodwill began to slip. Things really went downhill after the cancellation.

Trial of a Timelord was reviled?

It was not well liked at the time and the reactions have only gotten worse over time. This is from Shannon Sullivan's site.

Although it was perhaps miraculous that The Trial Of A Time Lord had been completed at all, its reception by the viewing public was lukewarm at best. Hampered by the long break between seasons and potent opposition from American action import The A-Team, ratings for Season Twenty-Three were even poorer than for the preceding year, although Audience Appreciation figures had improved noticeably. In October, BBC1 Controller Michael Grade approached Doctor Who creator Sydney Newman about giving the programme a make-over. Newman's initial suggestions included a new Doctor more in the vein of Patrick Troughton's incarnation to be followed by a female incarnation; two younger companions (a homesick twelve year-old girl and her impetuous eighteen year-old brother); an increased emphasis on Earthbound series (set in both the present and the past); and even a new exterior shape for the TARDIS. However, after Newman had an unproductive meeting with Powell, his ideas were abandoned.

It was no secret that both Grade and Powell hated the show though.

 

[Mr Awe]

I guess JNT would've had to do something really spectacular to win people over then?

(Never having seen DW the first time around, I'm very removed from the whole thing, so I'm intrigued by why JNT was so reviled... mostly because of the CBaker years I guess? Davison seemed pretty well-loved...)

I can only speak for US fans, but apart from some early rumblings about 'Trial of a Timelord' ("We waited 18 months for this?!") JNT was still fairly well liked. It wasn't until the end of Seven's first series that the goodwill began to slip. Things really went downhill after the cancellation.

Another US fan here from the time. And, this would vary from fan to fan, but I heard a lot of rumbling about JNT during the the Colin Baker years. Murmurs during Colins first year followed by louder noises his next. Some of those stories were just downright terrible.

With more knowledge looking back, I do realize that JNT wanted off the show but wasn't allowed. So, I give him more slack now.

Trial of a Timelord was reviled?

I'd say pretty strongly disliked. The stories were very weak for the most part. Some of the special effects were impressive for the time and for the BBC.

Mr Awe

 

[OmahaStar]

Another US fan here from the time. And, this would vary from fan to fan, but I heard a lot of rumbling about JNT during the the Colin Baker years. Murmurs during Colins first year followed by louder noises his next. Some of those stories were just downright terrible.

Huh? What are you talking about? There were no bad stories from the Sixth Doctor's era.

 

[Cutter John]

Huh? What are you talking about? There were no bad stories from the Sixth Doctor's era.