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Spoilers Thunderbolts* grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Thunderbolts*?


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Yeah I was kind of pissed at that. I usually stay for the credits and try to read through at least the music stuff, and when it showed a credit for the Fantastic Four First Steps theme; I went that wasn't in the actual movie anywhere; damn now I know what the end teaser is going to be about.

I was really trying to avoid any spoilers beyond the first trailer for Fantastic Four First Steps as I'm a big Fantastic Four fan; and honestly it appears they spoiled the ending for that film.

Thanks Kevin Feige- I really wanted to know the ending to Fantastic Four First Steps before I see the film.. oh wait.

(And yes there were plenty of people talking about how they were going to bring the Fantastic Four over from a different universe or via time travel; but this pretty much answers that question before the film even comes out. I know a lot of people love to know everything about a movie before they see it in the theaters; but I'm not one of those people, and generally I try to go out of my way to avoid spoilers.)

But really, what did they spoil with the FF end credits?

It's pretty safe to assume the FF will somehow cross over to the main MCU universe, it's safe to assume they will survive their movie but other than that we know nothing save for the few tidbits from the trailers.

So to anyone who's even a little familiar with the MCU or franchise movies shouldn't be too shocked to see this, especially if you know that MCU end credits often announce future movies/characters.
 
Per one of the writers, he had an entire subplot for Taskmaster, but a in later draft by a different writer they wanted to up the stakes by killing a character early, and Taskmaster was that casualty.
Damn, that's disappointing. I particularly like the idea of Antonia and Ava bounding over shared childhood trauma and overreliance on technology as a result. I get the writer's point on redundancy but it still sucks.

I also loved how the article concluded:

It seems unlikely that Marvel Studios would bother with a character they killed so offhandedly and abruptly — but hey, Guardians of the Galaxy’s Gamora returned from the dead (via time-loop shenanigans), and Tom Hiddleston’s Loki has “died” three times (and became a cosmic tree once), yet he’s still apparently coming back for Avengers: Doomsday. So it’s always possible she could still show up to punch Walker in the face a few more times. He deserves it.​
 
But really, what did they spoil with the FF end credits?

It's pretty safe to assume the FF will somehow cross over to the main MCU universe, it's safe to assume they will survive their movie but other than that we know nothing save for the few tidbits from the trailers.

So to anyone who's even a little familiar with the MCU or franchise movies shouldn't be too shocked to see this, especially if you know that MCU end credits often announce future movies/characters.
- Whether it was time travel or dimensional travel.

And yes, I guess we still don't know at what point in their film they come over, but yeah, sorry I don't care for that level of an actual spoiler in an MCU end credit teaser. YMMV.

(And yeah if you're going to say: All the sites already knew this...yeah, I didn't because I'm trying to avoid spoilers.)
 

Okay, so apparently Zemo WAS going to be part of this in an earlier draft as some kind of "Puppetmaster from Jail" thing. Maybe he was giving advice to Valentina?

If Zemo HAD been in the movie, the ideal way to do it would've been for him to start scheming that once the New Avengers have built up enough of a reputation and well liked enough, he'll reveal all their dirty secrets that they were mostly all Black Ops Killers and Criminals, which will serve his overall mission to discredit the very notion of "The Superhero" and erode Humanity's faith in them as a whole. As the public are unsure of them after the Sentry incident, he has to wait till they're more established.

Just like The Thunderbolts "Own" Valentina now, Zemo is planning for the day he can "own" the whole lot of them.
 
- Whether it was time travel or dimensional travel.

And yes, I guess we still don't know at what point in their film they come over, but yeah, sorry I don't care for that level of an actual spoiler in an MCU end credit teaser. YMMV.

(And yeah if you're going to say: All the sites already knew this...yeah, I didn't because I'm trying to avoid spoilers.)

Does it really matter if it's time travel or dimensional travel ( it's the latter since they use the actual words "dimensional shift" in the end credits)?

They deal with Galactus one way or the other and in the process, for some reason, they travel to the main MCU universe. Personally now i'm even more intrigued how and why. I mean it was clear as day they would join the MCU because the trailer has shown a world that simply didn't fit with the MCU timeline of what's known during that era, so they would have to cross into the MCU at some point by some means.

The FF comics are full of them dimension hopping, in fact they are one of the most "mobile" teams in the whole of Marvel, so i don't see that as a problem in the MCU, especially since it's still the Multiverse storyline.
 

Okay, so apparently Zemo WAS going to be part of this in an earlier draft as some kind of "Puppetmaster from Jail" thing. Maybe he was giving advice to Valentina?

If Zemo HAD been in the movie, the ideal way to do it would've been for him to start scheming that once the New Avengers have built up enough of a reputation and well liked enough, he'll reveal all their dirty secrets that they were mostly all Black Ops Killers and Criminals, which will serve his overall mission to discredit the very notion of "The Superhero" and erode Humanity's faith in them as a whole. As the public are unsure of them after the Sentry incident, he has to wait till they're more established.

Just like The Thunderbolts "Own" Valentina now, Zemo is planning for the day he can "own" the whole lot of them.

Wouldn't that be just a re-tread of Civil War in spirit at least? Zemo messing with superheroes indirectly could get old fast but this possibility is still not off the table, their past may well come around back to haunt them down the line if they get another team movie.
 
Wouldn't that be just a re-tread of Civil War in spirit at least? Zemo messing with superheroes indirectly could get old fast but this possibility is still not off the table, their past may well come around back to haunt them down the line if they get another team movie.

My guess is that he'd be ON the team in this version and the others assume he's "Gotten with the Program now" but truthfully he's just running a long scheme wherein he'll help build them to be heroes...before he destroys their image.
 
Does it really matter if it's time travel or dimensional travel ( it's the latter since they use the actual words "dimensional shift" in the end credits)?

They deal with Galactus one way or the other and in the process, for some reason, they travel to the main MCU universe. Personally now i'm even more intrigued how and why. I mean it was clear as day they would join the MCU because the trailer has shown a world that simply didn't fit with the MCU timeline of what's known during that era, so they would have to cross into the MCU at some point by some means.

The FF comics are full of them dimension hopping, in fact they are one of the most "mobile" teams in the whole of Marvel, so i don't see that as a problem in the MCU, especially since it's still the Multiverse storyline.
Um - I own the original FF comics from Issue #11 to #160 (yes, I'm a long time collector. Issue #160 was the point I stopped reading comics all together for the most part)

So yeah, I'm well aware of the FF and how Reed Richards routinely put the Earth in mortal danger because he was experimenting like a mad scientist letting various energies, creatures and threats from other dimensions, time periods and alternate realities into our world. It's an aspect I enjoyed.

And yes, it matters to me because I didn't want spoilers.

I could care less if you think it's fine or not, I was just giving my opinion.
 
Um - I own the original FF comics from Issue #11 to #160 (yes, I'm a long time collector. Issue #160 was the point I stopped reading comics all together for the most part)

So yeah, I'm well aware of the FF and how Reed Richards routinely put the Earth in mortal danger because he was experimenting like a mad scientist letting various energies, creatures and threats from other dimensions, time periods and alternate realities into our world. It's an aspect I enjoyed.

And yes, it matters to me because I didn't want spoilers.

I could care less if you think it's fine or not, I was just giving my opinion.

And i think you're a little too dramatic on this "spoiler", which isn't one if you have seen more than one Marvel movie and know how they operate and if you have seen franchise movies from Hollywood you would know that the main characters have infinite plot armor.
 
And I'm not sure how seeing the Fantastic Four arrive in the Thunderbolts post credit scene spoils anything from Fantastic Four. I know that some people are on this idea that the Fantastic Four are going to fail to save Earth from Galactus and then they're going to have to flee their Earth as a result, but I call other bullshit on that. That's not going to happen. They're not going to introduce their new tent-pole heroes and have them fail so spectacularly in their first outing. It's a stupid idea. If anything, the Thunderbolts post-credited scene in the Fantastic Four post credit scene might link up, but I doubt that it will have anything to do with the main story of the Fantastic Four movie.
 
And I'm not sure how seeing the Fantastic Four arrive in the Thunderbolts post credit scene spoils anything from Fantastic Four. I know that some people are on this idea that the Fantastic Four are going to fail to save Earth from Galactus and then they're going to have to flee their Earth as a result, but I call other bullshit on that. That's not going to happen. They're not going to introduce their new tent-pole heroes and have them fail so spectacularly in their first outing. It's a stupid idea. If anything, the Thunderbolts post-credited scene in the Fantastic Four post credit scene might link up, but I doubt that it will have anything to do with the main story of the Fantastic Four movie.

And even if that's the case the end credits still don't spoil the story, in fact they could use Galactus again in the proper MCU at some point in some fashion and now we know that the FF failed once in stopping him opening up all sorts of character drama possibilities.

All i know is i'll be in the theater once FF releases and will probably know nothing or Marvel, if they're really back on track, has thrown an amazing curveball through misleading trailers like they did with Winter Soldier back in the day when they dropped the Hydra twist out of the blue.
 
Yeah, I really can't see them destroying the F4's Earth at the end of First Steps, it would completely ruin the movie and make them look useless if they defeat Galactus and save their Earth just for it to be destroyed by something that probably has nothing to do with the rest of the movie. My theory right now is that their Earth is OK, but they learn about the incursions and see that 616 is in danger, so they're coming to warn them.
I just got back from seeing this and I really enjoyed it.
Yelena has been becoming one of my favorite characters since she was introduced in Black Widow and I really like what they did with her. They did a great job of showing her issues and having her deal with them. Alexi was another highlight, he's just such a fun character, but it was nice that the movie did give us a little more serious material with him too.
Valentina was a great villain, and it was kind of nice to see all her plot and scheming bite her in the ass. It will be interesting to see what they do with her now that The New Avengers "own" her.
The rest of the cast was great to, I thought they did a good job of giving everyone some attention. We got some nice stuff for Walker, but it would have been nice if we got a bit more with Ava. I can understand why they didn't do much of that with Bucky since we've already gotten of exploration of his character in his other appearance. I was shocked at just how quick they were to kill off Taskmaster, I was pretty sure she wasn't going to make it to the end, but I had at least expected her to last longer than she did.
I liked what they did with Bob/Sentry/The Void, he was interesting character, and his telepathic powers, which are actually not something he does in the comics, was a cool way to explore the characters' issues. I was hoping we'd get to see at least a little bit of a heroic Sentry after they dealt with The Void, but I understand that wouldn't have worked what they established about him. I actually thought the Sentry costume was kinda cool, but maybe I just have bad taste.
The origin of the Thunderbolts name was pretty funny, but I did like how they were set up as The New Avengers too.
I thought both post credits scenes were great. I didn't think the F4 one was a spoiler at all, it was just a nice little tease that has me very curious to see how close my theory about the end of First Steps is to what actually happens. For me the only way it would be a spoiler would be if actually showed us how they defeat Galactus or told us exactly how and why they jumped dimensions. We don't even know for sure this is from the end of the movie, for all we know this could be in the beginning or middle of it. Or maybe it's before the movie and it starts with them arriving back in their universe after visiting 616.
Interesting you're stating this. The other day, oktay posted the following from Kevin Feige, et al.:





The internal concerns of Marvel Studios creating a "new new fans club" with the films (for Feige's "homework" reason) plus productions that are just not in the "must see" category is a cold wave of under-performance the studio does not have the ability to avoid at this time. I'm still hoping the FF will be a self-contained (...well...) gem that does not beat the audience over the head with Easter Eggs and references to innumerable MCU productions from the past.
My mom never saw The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, and didn't remember the characters from the movies she did see, and she still followed the movie OK and enjoyed it. So I think some of this concern is a little overblown.
- Whether it was time travel or dimensional travel.
They specifically said in the scene that it was dimensional travel, and have said over and over again everywhere that they've talked about First Steps that it's not set on Earth 616.
 
Marvel's officially changing the title of the movie. Should we change the title of the thread? ;) :lol:


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Marvel's officially changing the title of the movie. Should we change the title of the thread? ;) :lol:


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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

I liked the whole Thunderbolts thing and it matched the theme of the movie better.
 
I understand Marvel is struggling to get people in seats and they wanted a big marketing push to help... but damn, three days?

I think this is the first time a movie has ever kept its TITLE a secret until after release.
 
Marvel's officially changing the title of the movie. Should we change the title of the thread? ;) :lol:


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I'll wait at least two weeks, to people enough time to watch it without being spoiled.

But then I'll definitely do it. Just remind me.
 
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