Thoughts on the USS Shenzhou (Trailer Edition)

[uniderth]

Its not that, its just a known dated styling. The whole thing screams 1960's. Trek itself revamped the ship and came up with a laughable excuse ( refit) that changed everything, including size and number of decks

They tried just updating the Textures ( on the outside) in though a mirror darkly, but they could not hide what it was. Its like a car, you know what decade its from by looking at it and it looks its age, no matter how you change it. This is not always bad, but it does mean you can not place a 68 Camaro , next to a 2017 one and call them the same decade. Sure they have a similar styling, but are clearly not from the same decade.

This is the Issue, the 1960's connie, will always look like a 1960's connie. Those designs are the sore thumb of trek because it moved away from that look at once. Nothing after TOS looks like that, Its out of place and even Gene was OK with decanonizing the whole thing.

Exactly. The only reason it LOOKS outdated is becasue we know it's from the sixties. Just becasue we think it looks outdated doesn't mean it really is. So there's no reason to redeign the ship just becasue our perception of it makes us think it looks outdated.

So what you do is you take it and rebuild it, you make it fit the post ENT look. Even a cleaned Up and retexturized TMP ship looks far more in line and fitting than a 60's era ship.

Not if you're setting your show in the time period when that design existed in universe.

 

[Mr Awe]

Hardly. Done right they look amazing and like they belong.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Yep, this is absolutely correct! The concern over how they look stem mainly from the old technology used to film them. The cheapo CGI in the HD versions didn't help. But, done correctly, the Constitution class looks fantastic.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Exactly. The only reason it LOOKS outdated is becasue we know it's from the sixties. Just becasue we think it looks outdated doesn't mean it really is. So there's no reason to redeign the ship just becasue our perception of it makes us think it looks outdated.

It looks 1960's its not about knowing it is. It looks it. Just as I explained with the cars. You can't hide what it is and sweet gods one look inside kills your argument. It is dated and as I pointed out The very creator new it and went away from it at 1st chance.

There is zero reason to keep it and every reason to change it. The only reason to keep it is to appeal to fanboys that want to wank off to the 1960 TOS nod. Just like the foolish forehead storyline. Zero reason to do it. It simply does not fit the styling post ENT and it looks like someones old car they pull out to take to parades.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Exactly. The only reason it LOOKS outdated is becasue we know it's from the sixties. Just becasue we think it looks outdated doesn't mean it really is. So there's no reason to redeign the ship just becasue our perception of it makes us think it looks outdated.

Yes there is. This is a piece of entertainment. It really is all about perception. The concern of the showrunners is to engage viewers. Those viewers need to feel like the show is rubbing them in a way so that things look futuristic. Seeing something literally from decades ago is going to evoke pretty much the exact opposite feeling. That's because they'll know it's from the sixties. The show isn't found footage; it's not being shown to Mathesar who'll believe it's real even if it's only this big.

 

[Mr Awe]

Its not that, its just a known dated styling. The whole thing screams 1960's.

Yeah, like you know, who'd want one of those classic 60s Mustangs. Geez, such known dated styling. Garbage I tell you!

 

[uniderth]

It looks 1960's its not about knowing it is. It looks it. Just as I explained with the cars. You can't hide what it is and sweet gods one look inside kills your argument. It is dated and as I pointed out The very creator new it and went away from it at 1st chance.

What I like about the 60's Trek aesthetic is that its so visually simple you can imagine any sort of tech is hidden behind those wall or panels. In 20 years Discovery will look far more dated comparatively than 60's trek, becasue of the fact it is more explicit in its detailing. Our real world technology will edge out Discovery, while at the same time we can pretend it was there all along in Kirk's era.

There is zero reason to keep it and every reason to change it.

Just becasue you ignore them doesn't mean there are zero.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Yeah, like you know, who'd want one of those classic 60s Mustangs. Geez, such known dated styling. Garbage I tell you!

Would you think it was a 2017 Mustang?

Look, I appreciate it for what it is and for the time it was made. But if you put it next to a modern created ship, it will look old and dated and kills the story and illusion. They even tried revamping it in ENT, giving it way more detail than it had and it just did not work. It looked like what it was, a 1960's design.

No one is gonna buy it as following the NX 1, much less the ship we see in the trailer. It just does not belong.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

What I like about the 60's Trek aesthetic is that its so visually simple you can imagine any sort of tech is hidden behind those wall or panels. In 20 years Discovery will look far more dated comparatively than 60's trek, becasue of the fact it is more explicit in its detailing. Our real world technology will edge out Discovery, while at the same time we can pretend it was there all along in Kirk's era.



Just becasue you ignore them doesn't mean there are zero.

No, it looks dated now, and will look more dated in 20 years. It will always look like a 1960's design. Just like the 80's versions scream ( 80's) and the modern ones will scream ( 2000's) they are dated by the look. It will always be what it is, a 1960 design that looks like it belongs on a 1960's sci-fi show.

 

[Mr Awe]

Would you think it was a 2017 Mustang?

Look, I appreciate it for what it is and for the time it was made. But if you put it next to a modern created ship, it will look old and dated and kills the story and illusion. They even tried revamping it in ENT, giving it way more detail than it had and it just did not work. It looked like what it was, a 1960's design.

There's something special about those classic cars.

Agree that the presentation has to be modern. But, that doesn't mean you need to change the physical shape. It's more about the detailing, lighting, etc. Anyone involved in cinematography and special effects knows that makes all the difference. The TOS Constitution class can look like it fits in.

I hope we get a chance to find out on the show!

 

[Fandango831]

I love how every thread about any other ships slowly drifts into feelings on the TOS Enterprise.

Anyways on the topic of the USS Shenzhou I enjoy elements of the design. I appreciate when Star Trek aims for new aesthetics and throws in old ones while it's at it. The underslung bridge is neat and as the OP said reminds me of a blimp kind of especially with the atmospheric scene. Not a fan of the window but I get it's for camera reasons. Also it's just something that adds to new designs open to ship building. Not a fan of all the red on the hull (could have been toned back a bit). The hull plating, shape, and paneling on the saucer is clearly pulled from the ENT Enterprise which is nice to see in a Pre-TOS ship. As far is the nacelles go they are very much John Eaves same with the fins on the top of the saucer deck. All in all I'd give the design a 7/10 that could maybe use some tweaking to really make it shine otherwise I think it's a fine addition to the fleet.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I think my favorite part of the Shenzhou is that row of windows where the pylons meet the primary hull are situated. I bet the view from there is absolutely gorgeous!

 

[uniderth]

I love how every thread about any other ships slowly drifts into feelings on the TOS Enterprise.

That's because it's so f*****g AWESOOOOMMMEEEE!!!!!!!!

 

[BillJ]

It is dated and as I pointed out The very creator new it and went away from it at 1st chance.

Well, no. The first chance would've been The Animated Series. Then the second chance would've been Star Trek II, the only thing to really change was the nacelles.

It wasn't until Gene had a pot of money that things started changing. And I may be wrong, but he was told the Enterprise would need to be updated for the big screen, it wasn't his first choice.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Well, no. The first chance would've been The Animated Series. Then the second chance would've been Star Trek II, the only thing to really change was the nacelles.

It wasn't until Gene had a pot of money that things started changing. And I may be wrong, but he was told the Enterprise would need to be updated for the big screen, it wasn't his first choice.

He hated the animated series and did not consider it canon. and the TMP was a massive redesign of TOS. They have nothing in common except a very vague basic shape.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

He hated the animated series and did not consider it canon.

He loved it at the time, had a lot of control over it, signed his name to it, and cashed the paychecks. It wasn't until later and rights issues reared their heads that things went sour.

 

[BillJ]

He hated the animated series and did not consider it canon. and the TMP was a massive redesign of TOS. They have nothing in common except a very vague basic shape.

Now... find the Star Trek II ship and place it between the two.

By-the-by: I think the top ship looks ten times better than the refit.

 

[Spider]

The TOS connies look goofy and out of place.

Blasphemer! Out the airlock you go!

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Now... find the Star Trek II ship and place it between the two.

By-the-by: I think the top ship looks ten times better than the refit.

I am unsure what you mean by a star trek II ship. You mean phase 2? Because it was pretty close to TMP ship I just posted

 

[BillJ]

I am unsure what you mean by a star trek II ship. You mean phase 2? Because it was pretty close to TMP ship I just posted

Phase II. The show was to be called Star Trek II. It changed later on to stop confusion.



They changed the nacelles and added a launcher. But the primary and secondary hulls are straight out of TOS.

So the notion that Roddenberry wanted to "change everything the first chance he got", rings false.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Phase II. The show was to be called Star Trek II. It changed later on to stop confusion.



They changed the nacelles and added a launcher. But the primary and secondary hulls are straight out of TOS.

So the notion that Roddenberry wanted to "change everything the first chance he got", rings false.

This is the same secondary hull, neck and nacells as the TMP ship