^Quite possibly. After all, she does the very same to Picard himself, after he offers to take his place as Locutus, willingly, if only she would release Data.
Thoughts on the Borg Queen (First Contact, Voyager, etc.)
- Thread starter CrockAlley
- Start date
I absolutely do not want to see the Borg origins. Some things should remain a mystery. (Also, don't ever tell us what happened to the Enterprise-E. We don't need to know that! Accept the joke and move on!)
And keep V'ger way from from the Borg. Don't make the universe smaller by connecting the origins of unrelated things.
And keep V'ger way from from the Borg. Don't make the universe smaller by connecting the origins of unrelated things.
Prior to reading anyone else's responses, which will make more sense, here are my immediate thoughts:
She technically is, but ants have their own collective of sorts and have a direction - it's not enough of a segue to completely derail them. So do bees. Also, Alice Krige stole the show, making that part of the movie easier to roll with, though depending on mood and/or amount of coffee ingested, I'll be in one tangent or another.
As for the gestalt concept of the Borg prior to the Queen - how are they all coming to the same conclusion and acting in unison so quickly? There was something going on, with and/or other than Queen B. there. Must be something basic and obvious, or the drones are a lot smarter than given credit for.
MUH DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This goes back to the ants and the bees. Possibly some bird species too, so now I can say "the birds and the bees" and giggle.
Yeah, the dialogue went from "they have their own infant center" and "they take technology" (and thus had a contingent of fans immediately thinking "they're already ripping off the Pakleds?!") into assimilating others. Whether Locutus was a test of the idea, or it had been used in the recent past...
As for the Queen always being there and "they always had a leader and she was there hovering over Locutus" part of the retcon is iffy at best, topped off with the Queen's throwaway line thinking in limited terms as to how she was there or escaped or whatever, which never really was anything less than credible.
But the idea sufficiently works, and every actress cast has been sublime in the role, that it helps that much more.
One Queen dies and another takes over. Don't look up what bees and ants do to their Queens, but another invariably takes over. Or there are redundant Queens, so if up to 78% of them were wiped out, they'd still be able to continue unaffected... unless you hit in just that one spot, like in "First Contact" since the first five minutes of throwaway plot setup need to finish (and just don't say "just have them travel back in time without getting Starfleet to notice, instead of battling all the ships, just like last time, with only one cube, just like last time, then lose and then time travel dealy..." )
Data should be physically stronger; the hydraulics and other attachments could only go so far.
But no Borg had ever experienced a projectile gun of that nature before, with all the species assimilated and technological knowledge and databases they stole? While not impossible, it's improbable. It's amazing their armor suits couldn't deflect. The pop-up shields we'd seen in episodes would only work on energy weapons.
I suppose they wanted to use him in a macabre experiment for some headscratcher of a reason... oh, the last time you were a scientist and took a rat and tested a new type of shampoo on it, did you cuddle it afterward? (Then again, the Queen wants to create the most bizarre... toy... so the analogy doesn't quite work...) I don't remember the scene after Data makes his ironic quip about resistance being futile. Only that she dissolves and then Picard goes all McClane T-800 on it with another quip.
^^this. For all three counts.
Of the three, I'd be the most tempted by the loss of "E", but the scene was handled so well that exploring that actual issue would have to be so much better in order for the original joke to remain effective. Definitely keep it a mystery.
A Borg origin story would be the dumbest thing. VOY almost went there, since it pretty much spells out that their home is the Delta quadrant. Not all villains need an origins story anyway. Whether it's on Borgtacular IV or if some rogue humans invented a space drive that took them to the delta quadrant and somehow time traveled zillions of years back in time and ended up being a part of how the Borg first formed... there's nothing that would work, and it doesn't need to be addressed. We're told what they are, which was novel enough, and that alludes adequately to their origins. I can't believe anyone would really think that the Borg began in Federation territory to begin with, never mind Earth.
The novel "Vendetta" gave a preview of the small universe syndrome thing, except it's not Vger but The Doomsday Machine. I adored the novel in 1991, but - yup - the doomsday machine windsock thing was designed by a species intent on wiping out the Borg. It's an existing example of "Done there been that" with throwing in random canonical bits for an allegedly greater and more epic reason than originally told. All that said, the Delcara subplot was fairly strong; I vaguely recall bits of scenes with Geordi, and a scene set in Ten-Forward.
Now looking up a book review: Dr Pulaski returned, so do The Preservers, and unlike later Trek episodes and movies, the novel had more sense and even threw in an attack fleet of three cubes!
Prelude to PICARD -- Retro Review: "Vendetta" • TrekCore.com
To quote an excerpt:
There certainly are some fist pumping moments in this book, as well as some really cool concepts to visualize. Pitting a Borg Cube against a Planet Killer is such a neat concept, but it is also one that could have been executed like bad fan fiction.
Vendetta is definitely not that; it balances being a celebration of the best of The Next Generation up to that time with telling a thoughtful story on right and wrong, and whether the ends justify the means.
If Reunion felt like a good episode of The Next Generation, then Vendetta feels like a great TV movie. David gets the characterizations of our heroes just right, is not afraid to pull toys out of the canon toy box and set them against each other, and holds the reader’s attention through the whole course of this complicated, but ultimately very fulfilling story.
Vendetta is definitely not that; it balances being a celebration of the best of The Next Generation up to that time with telling a thoughtful story on right and wrong, and whether the ends justify the means.
If Reunion felt like a good episode of The Next Generation, then Vendetta feels like a great TV movie. David gets the characterizations of our heroes just right, is not afraid to pull toys out of the canon toy box and set them against each other, and holds the reader’s attention through the whole course of this complicated, but ultimately very fulfilling story.
Right off the bat they recognize the risk of small universe syndrome, and champion how the book succeeds at eschewing such a fate. Now the real question is, do I want to dig up my copy and re-read and prepare to feel either happy and/or disappointed, or otherwise...
My suggestion wasn't that they'd never encountered that before, but simply that it would have been unexpected. (As in, a type of attack they don't experience often and therefore don't employ in their standard set of defensive measure).
Also, are we sure that what may look like body armor on the Borg is actually designed to have that function? As for energy shields not being able to deflect physical projectiles, I wouldn't know. On some occasions in Trek, shields have been shown to deflect incoming physical objects.
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It seems like less time on screen obviously, but Picard was assimilated for six days as per the scroll at the beginning of Emissary (DS9).
There is the Star Trek Destiny series and the TNG Relaunch that follows it, but while it's an interesting story, stylistically I don't think it fits that well with the Borg we see on screen, I definitely consider it 'non-canon' myself.
The Shatnerverse books also have origin myths about the Borg, but some of that storyline is just downright weird. I have never really bought into the Borg/V'Ger connection.
Season 1 of Picard didn't really imply that each cube has a Queen, just that it was a newer cube with newer technology reserved for her.
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Unless TPTB have revised their policies, all of the books are non-canon, so that's not really saying much.
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