Thoughts on Rewatching ST3

[Peach Wookiee]

Yup, two very different Kirks there.

Then again, Shatner-Kirk had won the game - Kruge was now defeated, even though having managed to kill Kirk's son earlier on. Spock had been saved even when an entire world was going to die. Although Spock was still at some risk if Kirk allowed Kruge to interfere with the beam-up.

Pine-Kirk had been defeated - Nero had destroyed Vulcan, in addition to killing Kirk's father. And Spock's mother had died when an entire world went down. Although nobody was at any further risk even if Kirk allowed Nero to live.

Timo Saloniemi

I have to disagree with that here, Timo. If the Jellyfish hadn't blown up and Nero had access to the red matter, his goal was to keep destroying planets in the Federation. He wasn't going to stop with Earth and Vulcan. And with late 24th century technology, including possibly Borg tech, Nero could still be a decent threat if the Narada got up and running again. But if Nero had allowed himself to be beamed aboard as the Narada was dying, the threat would have likely been neutralized.

 

[EnriqueH]

How does the movie hold up for you folks?

I watched it the other day and think it holds up wonderfully. I tend to think it is actually better than The Wrath of Khan.

There is never a moment in The Search for Spock where I'm "waiting" to get to the good part. It is well paced and keeps me entertained from beginning to end. The acting is great, I love the "I've had enough of you" scene and wouldn't change it for anything.

An incredibly underrated film in my opinion.

I cannot agree with this more. QFT

Hear, hear.

III is one of my Top 2 Trek films.

Some of my favorite moments in the ENTIRE FRANCHISE are to be found right here.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Currently watching the blu for first time (haven't seen III in a few years either).

Those alien microbes always bugged me. Creepy and disgusting. I remember seeing III in 84 as a kid and thinking they were something to do with Spocks body, something to do with his blood or something! what exactly are they anyway? David said they were microbes on the tubes surface from enterprise that were fruitful and multiplied (even his description is yuksome). then Kruge encounters them as vicious snake like things. guess they were IIIs attempt at a horrible Ceti Eel type creature..

Theres alot of Khan in III - I know its a direct sequel but theres the Ceti eel type microbes, Khan like Kruge, Horner etc, it'd have been even more so if only Alley had been Savvik again

 

[golddragon71]

I had watched III this past week following Leonard Nimoy's passing and I have to say I really enjoy it for the most part. I do feel the Saavik/David scenes on Genesis lag a bit. The Young Lieutenant on station with Uhura reminds me of Burt Ward from the Batman TV series finally getting to play a different role after all those years of playing goofy sidekick (at the time this film had debuted i was still unaware that the Batman series was a 60's TV series rather than a 70's series*

I immediately bought Christopher Lloyd as a villain as my only previous exposure to him was as Butch Cavendish in the Much Maligned (but Infinitely better than the Disney/DeppVersion) Legend of the Lone Ranger. (He wouldn't be Doc Brown to me until two years later so it's easy to watch that without GREAT SCOTT!!! running through my head)

I thought Robin Curtis was ok as Saavik (as Saavik was not a member of the Classic 7 it wouldn't have affected me if she had gotten the knife.) I guess her experiences in the Khan affair earned her a promotion because they dropped the cadet-Red Undersweater for white.
(Presumably she was now the full Science officer for the Grissom.)



*(I had watched Batman from 76-79 every day after school and was totally unaware that it was ten years old at that point The fact that the Batman cartoons at the time (Filmations second series and the later seasons of the super Friends) used West and Ward's voices for Batman and Robin compounded my confusion.)

 

[Smellmet]

I think The Search For Spock is the most underrated film out of the original six.

 

[starburst]

Historically I have been one of those who have said his favourite Star Trek was either II or VI and while I enjoy that bustling Hornblower vibe Meyer tried to inject when I think about it one of the films I probably watched the most was TSFS.

Now I am older you see it as a much deeper film than the others, at parts it is upbeat and triumphant and then at other sombre and thoughtful;

Compare when they first reach Spacedock and see the Excelsior, or steal the Enterprise (which while tense is also fun) the music plays through the mood of the film. Even the opening credits turns from the upbeat and powerful theme to a reflective one when the Enterprise rolls in and we hear Kirks log entry.

The Enterprise looked gorgeous, especially during the Dock scenes and despite the additional damage we didn’t see during the last film. Apart from everything that has been said before in this thread and doesn’t need repeating yet again this film brought us the Excelsior and Oberth Starships as well as the Bird of Prey which have been staples of the Trek universe ever since.

Music, direction, lighting, ships, costumes and props this film hits the nail on the head for me… Although where I love Scotty and Morrows more casual jacket I did hate what Chekov was wearing. The return to the TOS styled Phase and Communicator was welcome though and probably my favourite of all the TOS films… I just don’t get why no one other than Kirk appeared to have a Phaser.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

The fleeting nature of fame, even for old movies.

 

[Timo]

I have to disagree with that here, Timo. If the Jellyfish hadn't blown up and Nero had access to the red matter, his goal was to keep destroying planets in the Federation. He wasn't going to stop with Earth and Vulcan. And with late 24th century technology, including possibly Borg tech, Nero could still be a decent threat if the Narada got up and running again. But if Nero had allowed himself to be beamed aboard as the Narada was dying, the threat would have likely been neutralized.

Well, yes, that's what I meant: when the time came for Kirk to choose between mercy and vengeance, Nero (and his ship and crew and weapons) had already ceased to be a threat of any sort to anybody, while Kruge (and his bare hands) still presented a minor threat to our two heroes who needed to complete their escape from Genesis.

In theory, leaving Kruge alive but captured might have made the politics of ST4 simpler. Or then vastly more complicated! Also in theory, getting rid of Nero probably simplified things with both Klingons and Romulans a lot, while letting him live would have risked baddies like S31 allowing him continue with some evildoing as payment for the future riches (that is, future knowledge) he had to offer. Or might have had to offer, were he not just an angry bluecollar whose only known futuro-skill was calculating of timehole opening points...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

As has been said before, given that Nero and his crew were falling into a Red Matter-generated black hole, and it's been established that those can be used for time/space travel, to say that Nero was no longer a threat is potentially erroneous.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

As has been said before, given that Nero and his crew were falling into a Red Matter-generated black hole, and it's been established that those can be used for time/space travel, to say that Nero was no longer a threat is potentially erroneous.

Unless it's like the ribbon, depending on how you fall into it you either get through or are destroyed.

 

[Timo]

It might be significant that Nero was in a collapsing starship. Although admittedly it was a whopping big ship, with potentially surviving auxiliary vessels in that vast hangar we saw, and perhaps a teeny weeny chance that Nero could make use of one of those.

One wonders... Spock's little Jellyfish spat out of the timehole in 2258 at high speed, but the Narada originally crawled out in 2233 at a snail's pace. Was she perhaps fighting the passage with her engines? Or, considering Nero was pursuing Spock in rage, was she using her engines trying to push through, but it was difficult going for something that big? Either way, Nero now being in a ship that had no engine capacity might be disastrous to his ability to travel through the timehole.

Further, the timeholes we saw up close, that is, the 2233 and 2258 ends of the hole originating at Romulus, disappeared very soon after appearing (unless this was the fault of the camera looking in the wrong direction or something). Nero's wreck seemed stuck: what would have happened when that timehole disappeared?

There are some parallel ambiguities about ST3, to try and stay on topic. A big mass of lava shoots out after our heroes when they make their escape from Genesis orbit. But is that really the end of Genesis? Or does the planet still survive? For a few hours, a few weeks, a few million years? Does the planet merely remake itself due to being protomatter-unstable, in a series of weird and useless forms that completely defeat the civilian purpose of the Genesis project but would make the sadists among the military users chuckle with glee?

And if the planet survives, does it eventually give rebirth to Kruge? Perhaps in some horrendous form that will still retain enough of the original to remember it ought to hate Captain J.T. Kirk?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kirkfan]

It might be significant that Nero was in a collapsing starship. Although admittedly it was a whopping big ship, with potentially surviving auxiliary vessels in that vast hangar we saw, and perhaps a teeny weeny chance that Nero could make use of one of those.

One wonders... Spock's little Jellyfish spat out of the timehole in 2258 at high speed, but the Narada originally crawled out in 2233 at a snail's pace. Was she perhaps fighting the passage with her engines? Or, considering Nero was pursuing Spock in rage, was she using her engines trying to push through, but it was difficult going for something that big? Either way, Nero now being in a ship that had no engine capacity might be disastrous to his ability to travel through the timehole.

Further, the timeholes we saw up close, that is, the 2233 and 2258 ends of the hole originating at Romulus, disappeared very soon after appearing (unless this was the fault of the camera looking in the wrong direction or something). Nero's wreck seemed stuck: what would have happened when that timehole disappeared?

There are some parallel ambiguities about ST3, to try and stay on topic. A big mass of lava shoots out after our heroes when they make their escape from Genesis orbit. But is that really the end of Genesis? Or does the planet still survive? For a few hours, a few weeks, a few million years? Does the planet merely remake itself due to being protomatter-unstable, in a series of weird and useless forms that completely defeat the civilian purpose of the Genesis project but would make the sadists among the military users chuckle with glee?

And if the planet survives, does it eventually give rebirth to Kruge? Perhaps in some horrendous form that will still retain enough of the original to remember it ought to hate Captain J.T. Kirk?

Timo Saloniemi

That means that there is potential for a Nero revival at a future date.

 

[FormerLurker]

It might be significant that Nero was in a collapsing starship. Although admittedly it was a whopping big ship, with potentially surviving auxiliary vessels in that vast hangar we saw, and perhaps a teeny weeny chance that Nero could make use of one of those.

One wonders... Spock's little Jellyfish spat out of the timehole in 2258 at high speed, but the Narada originally crawled out in 2233 at a snail's pace. Was she perhaps fighting the passage with her engines? Or, considering Nero was pursuing Spock in rage, was she using her engines trying to push through, but it was difficult going for something that big? Either way, Nero now being in a ship that had no engine capacity might be disastrous to his ability to travel through the timehole.

Further, the timeholes we saw up close, that is, the 2233 and 2258 ends of the hole originating at Romulus, disappeared very soon after appearing (unless this was the fault of the camera looking in the wrong direction or something). Nero's wreck seemed stuck: what would have happened when that timehole disappeared?

There are some parallel ambiguities about ST3, to try and stay on topic. A big mass of lava shoots out after our heroes when they make their escape from Genesis orbit. But is that really the end of Genesis? Or does the planet still survive? For a few hours, a few weeks, a few million years? Does the planet merely remake itself due to being protomatter-unstable, in a series of weird and useless forms that completely defeat the civilian purpose of the Genesis project but would make the sadists among the military users chuckle with glee?

And if the planet survives, does it eventually give rebirth to Kruge? Perhaps in some horrendous form that will still retain enough of the original to remember it ought to hate Captain J.T. Kirk?

Timo Saloniemi

You could use the same argument to postulate the planet somehow spitting Khan back out at some point. No, it's more likely that the planet will reshape itself according to normal physics now, with the protomatter having been consumed by the original formation in the first place.

I see the Mutara Nebula as having been so dense because it was already forming a new planetary system, with a star already in place. The Genesis device interfered with the formation, and the planet in question formed unstable because of the protomatter. Now that that process is complete, the system can go back to what it was doing in the first place, just hurried up a little because of the interference by the Genesis device.

 

[SchwEnt]

TSFS, the feels. Oh man.

TWOK, surely an emotional powerhouse with Spock's death.

But TSFS... Kirk and crew, even in their grief over Spock, no respite for them. Seems the galaxy just keeps kicking them when they're down, again and again. This time, no mission from Star Fleet. This crew, just friends laying it all on the line for each other, never giving up, sacrificing everything for each other.

TSFS really showed what this crew meant to each other, what their friendship was all about.
Nimoy showed us this crew with a lot of heart, and in a way never really seen before or since.

Oh sure, we've seen Kirk Spock and McCoy together for each other. But the whole crew coming together, for personal friendship and loyalty to each other. Good stuff.

 

[Timo]

You could use the same argument to postulate the planet somehow spitting Khan back out at some point. No, it's more likely that the planet will reshape itself according to normal physics now, with the protomatter having been consumed by the original formation in the first place.

Agreed on that, I guess. Although the planet might have resurrected Khan at an earlier date already, assuming it formed at and from the very detonation of Genesis and thus caught Khan tightly in its matrix...

Perhaps the Genesis Planet is Khan reborn, tearing itself up in anger and frustration?

I see the Mutara Nebula as having been so dense because it was already forming a new planetary system, with a star already in place. The Genesis device interfered with the formation, and the planet in question formed unstable because of the protomatter. Now that that process is complete, the system can go back to what it was doing in the first place, just hurried up a little because of the interference by the Genesis device.

It wouldn't suffice for Genesis to form a new star or expose it from within the nebula. The old one (The one which the Regula rock orbited - itself named Regula? Or Mutara? Or something else?) would have to disappear somehow, too!

The simpler explanation IMHO is that there is only one star, the original one. And only one planet, the one formerly known as Regula. Genesis was supposed to transform existing lifeless worlds into living ones, after all, and its programming could not accommodate one byte more, so flexibility to deal with nebulae sounds unlikely.

Sure, the simulation describing the programmed-in capabilities shows the Genesis Torpedo basically hitting the surface of the targeted lifeless body, rather than the waves reaching that body from a distant detonation. But we do learn that distant detonations still will have the Genesis effect on our heroes, so why not on Regula?

(Since the Mutara nebula clearly is off to one side of the local star, separated from it by a few impulse-minutes of travel, I trust you didn't mean this local star was the one "already in place". But we could argue the local star is an active one, and has burped out the nebula very recently in cosmic terms, perhaps wiping the system clean of other targets of interest in the process and just leaving the solid core of a past gas giant of D class. Now that would also explain why "D class" refers to an exo-Saturn in VOY "Emanations"!)

The oddball planet is one of the main attractions of the movie in any case, and IMHO succeeds quite nicely. Especially the glacier/lava lake/mountain range matte with the sunset and sunrise really serves its purpose.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FormerLurker]

I meant a star inside the nebula, directing the formation of a new planetary system. The Genesis device isn't programmed to make stars, or isn't supposed to be, so it would bypass the star and consume the matter around it to make the planet it's supposed to make. The protomatter pushes this process past where it's supposed to stop, causing it to convert the already collapsing nebular cloud into a planetary body instead of doing little or nothing due to it not already being a planet, and then all the little 'weather sectors' the Regula One crew wanted to see all show up being weird and dichotomous. The instability of the protomatter acts on this, making the planet even more unstable, probably shortening its life even more. It may even be responsible for the Genesis wave still being present, evolving the microbes on the photon tube's surface and accelerating the maturation of Spock's mindless body.

 

[RyanKCR]

I like this film, except for the destruction of the Enterprise. There is one scene that always bugs me. David's death and it leading to the destruction of the Enterprise. Kruge believes he is holding the team that created Genesis and he is willing to kill one of them?!?!?!?!? Also Kirk knows that there is only one there that could have any knowledge of Genesis, why didn't he say anything?