Thoughts on Rewatching ST3

[JonnyQuest037]

Like many here on the TrekBBS, I rewatched WRATH OF KHAN this weekend, and tonight I decided to follow it up with my first viewing of THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK in a few years. My thoughts:

The picture is a qualified success, but not the home run that TWOK proved to be a couple years before. It's a perfectly good picture, but it can't help but suffer in comparison to its predecessor. Some story weaknesses and casting problems keep it from taking flight at times. And the hairstyles and costuming make this the most 80s looking (and therefore one of the cheesiest-looking) of the Trek films. Uhura's sporting a jeri curl, and Shatner's hair has the same texture as a brillo pad.

Nimoy isn't as good of director for Shatner as Nicholas Meyer proved to be. Nimoy lets Shatner get away with some real hammy moments ("I -- Have Had -- Enough Of YOU!") that wouldn't have flown under Meyer. DeForest Kelley is wonderful, elevating every scene he's in and proving once again that he's one of the best actors in the Trek ensemble. Robin Curtis is unfortunately wooden as Saavik, a big comedown after Kirstie Alley. Merritt Butrick is much improved as David from TWOK, seeming less petulant & more adult. Shame he gets killed off, and it's also a shame that the script doesn't see fit to give David any scenes with his father before his demise. David's death would've hit a lot harder if we had more of a sense of what his relationship with Kirk was like. Mark Lenard makes a welcome return as Spock's father Sarek. Christopher Lloyd and John Larroquette prove to be fine villains. Most of the supporting Starfleet characters are unfortunately played WAY too broadly, which makes our heroes look ordinary instead of extraordinary.

But it does what it set out to do: Restores Spock to the fold with a minimum of muss & fuss. Nimoy gives the scenes on Vulcan a nice otherworldly feel, but a lot of the other scenes needed an extra "oomph" to really make them work. Thankfully, he learned on the job and made a better film his second time out.

How does the movie hold up for you folks?

 

[Timo]

I love how much they get out of the Genesis Planet, theoretically always teetering on the verge of having hokey matte paintings wobble and collapse, but in practice succeeding in convincingly portraying a very alien world.. (With a sunrise that comes from the same spot as the preceding sunset! Gravity in flux, indeed!)

The silliness of making everybody else utterly incompetent to have the heroes look halfway good is sort of balanced out by ST4:TVH where we get a neutral or competent Starfleet at long last. But it must have looked pretty cringeworthy the first time around, before ST4 premiered.

Kruge is a wonderful villain; I wonder what his fandom status would be, had he not been preceded by Khan?

This movie doesn't have the "middle part of a trilogy" feel at all - it's more a conclusion, although ST4 is the perfect addition anyway. It's still obvious a sequel must have been in the works all along, but it's nice how there are no contrived cliffhangers construed to set it up.

All in all, easy on the eyes and inviting a rewatch at least as often as ST2 or ST4.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

How does the movie hold up for you folks?

I watched it the other day and think it holds up wonderfully. I tend to think it is actually better than The Wrath of Khan.

There is never a moment in The Search for Spock where I'm "waiting" to get to the good part. It is well paced and keeps me entertained from beginning to end. The acting is great, I love the "I've had enough of you" scene and wouldn't change it for anything.

An incredibly underrated film in my opinion.

 

[22 Stars]

I agree, I think it is a better film than TWOK in many respects. If they had the budget/technology to shoot Genesis stuff in New Zealand for example, or CGI the Genesis planet better, I think it would be considered a classic.

While I love Christopher Lloyd, having an actor primarily known for comedic roles as the heavy worked against the tone and perception of the film, for sure.

 

[DonIago]

Thoughts in no particular order:

I like the inversion of the themes from TWOK.

While objectively it's a little contrived I suppose, I like that Kirk gets Spock back, but only by paying a high price.

I find Saavik and David trudging around on Genesis a bit boring, and unfortunately a bit dated at this point.

Conversely, I find the theft and consequent destruction of the Enterprise to be some of the greatest moments the franchise has to offer, and I don't even care if the former does make Starfleet look a little incompetent.

Love James Horner's music, though the Klingon theme pales beside the one from TMP (which I think was subsequently overused).

I really wish that if we hadn't gotten Kirstie Alley back, we'd at least had a different interpretation of the Saavik character from what we see here. TWoK Saavik was a lot more impressive. I might have actually accepted the flat performance if the idea was that Saavik was so grief-stricken that she'd opted to repress what emotion we saw previously, but sadly, if that's the idea, it's not made clear.

Good performance by Emmett Brown as a crazy Klingon.

Kirk's reaction to David's death is impressive as well, though I've heard varying reports as to whether he intentionally missed his chair.

 

[Timby]

Kirk's reaction to David's death is impressive as well, though I've heard varying reports as to whether he intentionally missed his chair.

He tripped during the first take. He intentionally fell in the shot that's used in the film.

 

[Franklin]

How does the movie hold up for you folks?

I watched it the other day and think it holds up wonderfully. I tend to think it is actually better than The Wrath of Khan.

There is never a moment in The Search for Spock where I'm "waiting" to get to the good part. It is well paced and keeps me entertained from beginning to end. The acting is great, I love the "I've had enough of you" scene and wouldn't change it for anything.

An incredibly underrated film in my opinion.

Agree 99.44%. I would say I think it's a movie far easier for fans to appreciate for all it's worth than for a general audience to find equally as entertaining for two hours.

It set the mold for treating the characters as more of an ensemble in Trek movies, too. Every one of the big seven had a nice scene and some memorable lines. The scene with Uhura and the lieutenant at Old City Station is one of my favorites in any Trek movie. When she told him, "This isn't reality. This is fantasy," it was almost as if she broke the fourth wall to remind fans even they knew they led unusual lives by any normal standard.

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

-I really like Shatner scenes with Admiral Morrow. Particularly the scene in the lounge- the look Shatner gives as he looks to the side is the moment where he confirms to the audience that he is going to sacrifice everything for Spock- great moment for Kirk by Shatner!

-Love the final scene where all Spock's friends gather around him- they sacrificed everything for that moment.

-Vulcan, the planet, was very alien & cool;

-the scene where the Klingons are about to kill one of Spock, David,Savvik was tense!

-Like everyone else, I love the "stealing the Enterprise" scene- including "Mr.Adventure", " Don't call me tiny", "How many fingers am I holding?"

-Destruction of the Enterprise scene was amazing

-Robin Curtis should have played another Vulcan

-Contrary to a comment above, I think Star Trek IV looked more '80's.

I love "The Search For Spock". Great film.

 

[sonak]

TWOK had PLENTY of hammy moments("khaaaaaaaaan!" as well as many from Montalban)

TWOK is actually more over the top in a lot of ways than the more subdued tone of TSFS

TSFS is a fine movie, my problems with it are more with plot details(Kirk going to Genesis before he knows Spock's body was resurrected, Starfleet being so rigid about not letting Kirk go)

 

[2takesfrakes]

The Search for Spock has always been my favourite STAR TREK movie and I've posted high praise for it often. I love the look of it, the costumes, the dramatic lighting, and I love the "darkness," the dramatic, Shakespearian themes employed here. My only complaint is what others have already stated with regards to David Marcus. He needed some kind of scene(s) with Kirk just to establish what kind of relationship they had. Were they becoming close? Were they becoming strangers? What's happening, here? What's more when David's at his console on the bridge of the grissom, he's strangely fascinated by the temperature on Genesis. But he at least seems interested in the unintended product of his creation. The problem is when he arrives on the planet, he's completely nonplussed by his surroundings. Not one plant, or rock formation piques his interest, at all. It's all just another day at the office. I don't get that. Also, his conversations with Saavik are painfully, deliberately curt and sterile:

Saavik: How long?
David: Days. maybe hours.

This is the way they talk. Look, I understand that verbosity can just kill a script, you want to get on with it, but there is really no interest in the David Marcus character either in the script, or in the direction. Maybe Bennett and Nimoy know David's days are numbered, but the audience doesn't! Give us something. But Shatner's handling of the scene where David makes The Ultimate Sacrifice is still touching. It could've been much more moving, much more dramatic, with its sense of loss, but ... there it is. Otherwise, I love this movie! And Leonard Nimoy's direction is most welcome, because he gave Spock's return the proper "weight." Another director would've probably set it up so it's just like, "OK, you knew this was coming ... here he is! Spock's back!" And that's not fair to someone going to this movie looking to be entertained. As it is, there's still some mystery involved and some magic mixed in with the hope and concern everyone's expressing. Nimoy got it right ...

 

[Timo]

Well, it would be pretty natural to say that David is moody because he's confronting the fact that Genesis is one huge failure. He's all excited about it when arriving, but the temperature shifts already give him a hint that everything isn't right down there. This is his life's work, and it not only sucks, it's gonna blow. "Look, I don't want to talk about it" is what one would expect of him at that point...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[arch101]

What I really liked about this film when it came out was just how much it changed the status quo for our heroes. The film starts out with our intrepid crew on the good 'ol Enterprise, like we had been seeing for 18 years (at that point). By the end of the film, our heroes are on the run, hauling around in their captured, rakish Klingon scout ship. No more Enterprise or safe reset at the end of the episode. This was an unprecedented situation for any Trek production up to that point. I almost wish TSFS had been the BEGINNING, not the middle, of a trilogy of the crew in this unusual situation.
Maybe when it gets remade someday...

 

[FormerLurker]

First, I think "I [kick]...have had [kick]...enough of YOU! [kick real hard]" is a scene that Meyer would have let Shatner have. In so many ways, it's Kirk's revenge for everything that has happened since Enterprise got back to Earth at the beginning of the film, and Kirk was told he wouldn't be allowed back out. Plus, he gets to kick the bad guy in the face, literally. How often does that happen? Kirk doesn't start to hate the Klingons until he gets the chance to sit back and think about it for a while.

Second, Kirk's reaction to David's death is as much one of "I never got the chance to tell him anything!" as it is "You killed my son!" Kirk not getting to spend more time with David just when he finally gets to have the kid call him dad is powerful stuff. What should have been made more clear right from the beginning of the film was that David was Kirk's son. That seemed like a reveal made after Grissom was destroyed, just to have a reveal. It struck me upon reflection like it was a cheat.

 

[Vger23]

First, I think "I [kick]...have had [kick]...enough of YOU! [kick real hard]" is a scene that Meyer would have let Shatner have. In so many ways, it's Kirk's revenge for everything that has happened since Enterprise got back to Earth at the beginning of the film, and Kirk was told he wouldn't be allowed back out. Plus, he gets to kick the bad guy in the face, literally. How often does that happen? Kirk doesn't start to hate the Klingons until he gets the chance to sit back and think about it for a while.

Second, Kirk's reaction to David's death is as much one of "I never got the chance to tell him anything!" as it is "You killed my son!" Kirk not getting to spend more time with David just when he finally gets to have the kid call him dad is powerful stuff. What should have been made more clear right from the beginning of the film was that David was Kirk's son. That seemed like a reveal made after Grissom was destroyed, just to have a reveal. It struck me upon reflection like it was a cheat.

He mentions that David is his son right off the bat in his Captains Log.

 

[Ssosmcin]

How does the movie hold up for you folks?

I watched it the other day and think it holds up wonderfully. I tend to think it is actually better than The Wrath of Khan.

There is never a moment in The Search for Spock where I'm "waiting" to get to the good part. It is well paced and keeps me entertained from beginning to end. The acting is great, I love the "I've had enough of you" scene and wouldn't change it for anything.

An incredibly underrated film in my opinion.

I cannot agree with this more. QFT

 

[BeatleJWOL]

First, I think "I [kick]...have had [kick]...enough of YOU! [kick real hard]" is a scene that Meyer would have let Shatner have. In so many ways, it's Kirk's revenge for everything that has happened since Enterprise got back to Earth at the beginning of the film, and Kirk was told he wouldn't be allowed back out. Plus, he gets to kick the bad guy in the face, literally. How often does that happen?

This. That is a damned glorious Kirk moment.

 

[Timo]

Plus it emphasizes the special nature of Kirk's heroism: a big part of TOS was Kirk's hesitancy to kill his opponents even when he had the means and what could traditionally be considered justification. Here he has been holding back for just about an entire movie, and even in the final showdown is willing to show mercy - but Kruge's response to that is to bite back and holler his stupid "Give me Genesis!" mantra. The audience is with Kirk there: enough is enough.

It does take an exceptional setup to drive Kirk to this point, though: loss of son, threat to all of his friends, threat to galactic peace, the damned villain hanging from his boot and trying to kill them both. Which is a very good thing: Kirk shouldn't get to this point lightly.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BeatleJWOL]

even in the final showdown is willing to show mercy - but Kruge's response to that is to bite back

Kirk shouldn't get to this point lightly.

Shades of the ending to ST2009.

 

[Timo]

Yup, two very different Kirks there.

Then again, Shatner-Kirk had won the game - Kruge was now defeated, even though having managed to kill Kirk's son earlier on. Spock had been saved even when an entire world was going to die. Although Spock was still at some risk if Kirk allowed Kruge to interfere with the beam-up.

Pine-Kirk had been defeated - Nero had destroyed Vulcan, in addition to killing Kirk's father. And Spock's mother had died when an entire world went down. Although nobody was at any further risk even if Kirk allowed Nero to live.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[enterprisecvn65]

I always this odd numbered films were bad and even numbered films were good theory was full of crap and TSFS is the best example.

Overall it's a very good film. I'm not going to go so far as to say as it's better or holds up better than TWOK in my opinion, but it does hold up very well.

It's especially impressive when you consider how many times it switched tone and did it seamlessly.

The opening is haunting (especially the music) where it's clear things are never going to be the same on the Enterprise.

The stealing the Enterprise was thrilling, yet had several great moments of humor that weren't corny (How many fingers am I holding up, It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost, Don't call me tiny, Uhura pulling the Phaser, Up your shaft, Styles reaction in his quarters when he hears the Enterprise is being stolen, Kirk, Scotty and Sulu's reaction when the space doors open just in time for the Enterprise to clear) And it's ultimately great to see the Enterprise stick it to the Excelsior, although the car conking out sound may have been a little much (Although in The Empire Strikes Back when Han turns the Millennium Falcon around to head towards the Avenger you can clearly hear a train horn in the cockpit as threepio starts to quote the odds and leia says "shut up")

The Klingons are evil, but also kind of amusing.

The Genesis scene in tension filled and ultimately sad as David and the Enterprise is sacrificed (Still don't think I've totally gotten over that).

My only real beef over the film (asides from seeing THE Enterprise destroyed) is after they leave Genesis the films drags for the last 20 or so. I know some people like the way they did the Spock revival scene, but I just think it was kind of underplayed.

I'm not saying they should have had the vulcan preistess calling down lighting and shit and Kirk screaming "HE'S ALIVE!!!!!" But to me there was too little drama, it was almost like they were just asking her to fix their car or something instead of bringing someone back to life.

I think it's a great film though and I do think it's gotten increased respect over time. Which is the opposite of TUC where I think the more people saw the more it its flaws were exposed and it decreased in stature.