Thoughts on "Relics"

[CorporalCaptain]

Scotty was a man pushing 80 on a ship with more than enough amenities to entertain him and plenty of things he can do to "catch up" on the seventy-five years of technological growth he has missed. But, no, he instead pesters the fuck out of Geordi and drinks all of the bartender's true whiskey.

Hell, to show how much people wanted to be with him Picard seeks the man out when he gets off duty! Showing that people weren't just getting Soctty out of their way, they just had shit to do. But, instead, Scotty acted like a bored-out-of-his-skull child on "Take your kid to work day."

A fair assessment.

I'd just like to add my name to the list of people who think Trekker 4747 has it bang on.

Also, in the new movie he's the inventor of warp transporting.

This episode takes place in a different timeline and we don't know that he invented that in both timelines. In-fact we have evidence to the contrary. In The Schizoid Man, the Enterprise has to approach the planet, drop out of warp and beam the away-team to the surface before warping away again. It is implied that this is dangerous and irregular. If they had that fancy "warp-transporting technology" they could have just beamed them there from outside of the planetary system.

If memory serves, warp transport technology of a kind is implied near the end of Star Trek VI, when they're approaching Earth and Kirk wants to know if they're in transport range yet. As for the date of the publication of the theory in the original timeline, I don't think that the older Spock in Star Trek '09 had the opportunity to research it - so when he says that Scotty first postulated the theory of transwarp beaming, he's probably working from memory. As an aside, when programming the transporter Spock tells Scotty that it's his (Scotty's) equation for achieving transport beaming. NuScotty is surprised and impressed by the equation.

.

Again I remind you, if Scotty had not acted that way, quote possibly everybody would have died! Do you want a do-over in which Scotty "behaves"? How would they have gotten out if he had not been such a pain?

 

[T'Girl]

Doesn't Scotty realize that Kirk died in the energy ribbon? After all, he was there when it happened.

James Kirk had been "dead" before and gotten better, interphase space, Romulan brigs, Vulcan nuptials, Shatner novels, Kirk alway returns. And as other have noted there was no body recovered. Scotty might have for years harbored the belief that Kirk would one day reappear (which he did).

Also, the experiences of Reg Barclay show that during protracted transport you don't actual lose consciousness in the matter stream, Scotty spent 75 years in a hazy semi-aware state as his matter stream spun through the transporter system, it might be understandable that he was confused for several second upon first rematerializing.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What I appreciate beyond anything else in this episode was Doohan finally having one opportunity to star in an hour of Star Trek and to exhibit something of the range of his abilities.

 

[Finn]

To be honest I never liked how they made Scotty out to be a bumbling fool just getting in everyone's way.

All of the sudden in walks a man who has been in a coma for 70 years but had your job when he was last awake.

Actually, he didn't have any job.

If you remember he was on his way to a retirement community when he hit the sphere. Nothing from the movies or TOS episodes would leave me to believe he would have acted like that.

Because in TOS and the movies, he wasn't stranded three generations into the future when he would be as useful as an engineer from a steamboat aboard a modern aircraft carrier. And honestly, there is nothing to suggest he wouldn't react this way as well.

 

[Vanyel]

Here I think gives a good review of the episode and a good, balanced, explanation of how Scotty was treated, and it's funny.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsMzIhy0zF4[/yt]

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Regarding the SF Debris review of Relics:

Well, he flubbed the nature of the continuity error about Kirk, implicitly blaming it on Relics instead of Generations. -1

He doesn't know how to pronounce the word "archetypes". The "ch" is pronounced as in "choir", not as in "church". +0

As to why Scott and Franklin didn't repair the Jenolen, whereas Scott and La Forge did: well, Scott and La Forge only got impulse running. This is sufficient to wander around the sphere looking for the Enterprise, but not sufficient to get the Jenolen out of the system to safety, which is what Scott and Franklin needed to do, but could not. -1

He totally failed to comment about Troi being shoved over to the side. She has one line, "Goodbye," which I did find rather humorous. +0

At least his points about the broken arm were valid. +1

He does assert the validity of Scott's feelings. +1

He identifies Picard's motivation to make Scott feel genuinely useful. +1

Some of his parodying of Scott was marginally humorous. +1

He correctly identified that some of the technobabble in the episode was probably off. +1

For making an effort to post a video, and for anything else I might have missed in his favor. +1

Score of review = 4 / 10.

 

[CDR6]

Here I think gives a good review of the episode and a good, balanced, explanation of how Scotty was treated, and it's funny.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsMzIhy0zF4[/yt]

Vanyel,

Very good, but that leaves only one question..."What did the Duke do?"

-Chuck

 

[Skellington]

Funny review. Loved the Trials And Tribble-ations and Shaun Of The Dead references.

 

[Trekker4747]

On Scotty "forgetting" about Kirk.

Well, consider that "Generations" wasn't written yet there's our out-of-universe/meta answer. In-universe Geordi says Scotty's pattern is .03% degraded it's possible that percentage was the memory of Kirk's death.

 

[bryce]

On Scotty "forgetting" about Kirk.

Well, consider that "Generations" wasn't written yet there's our out-of-universe/meta answer. In-universe Geordi says Scotty's pattern is .03% degraded it's possible that percentage was the memory of Kirk's death.

Exactly. Plus 75 years looping around in a transporter buffer would likely lead to some initial disorientation at first...

 

[bryce]

At least giving him a bigger shuttle would have been nice. (On with maybe an actual bathroom and food replicator.)

A runabout would have even been better.

But for production reasons, either would have been prohibitive, I guess.

Actually, the Capitan's Yacht might have even been easier - the
they'd just need and airlock or gangway set for the crew to stand in front of to say their goodbyes (maybe just reuse the holodeck doors) and an external model of the yacht...no need to show us the inside, and of course, no need to build a large life-sized mock-up.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

At least giving him a bigger shuttle would have been nice. (On with maybe an actual bathroom and food replicator.)

A runabout would have even been better.

But for production reasons, either would have been prohibitive, I guess.

Actually, the Captain's Yacht might have even been easier - they'd just need an airlock or gangway set for the crew to stand in front of to say their goodbyes (maybe just reuse the holodeck doors) and an external model of the yacht...no need to show us the inside, and of course, no need to build a large life-sized mock-up.

There was no model of the Captain's Yacht ever build because the low bid for it to be built was around $50,0000, and that would have eaten up the budget of the show for the season (exactly why CGI should have been used on TNG in the first place.)

 

[Trekker4747]

At least giving him a bigger shuttle would have been nice. (On with maybe an actual bathroom and food replicator.)

A runabout would have even been better.

But for production reasons, either would have been prohibitive, I guess.

Actually, the Captain's Yacht might have even been easier - they'd just need an airlock or gangway set for the crew to stand in front of to say their goodbyes (maybe just reuse the holodeck doors) and an external model of the yacht...no need to show us the inside, and of course, no need to build a large life-sized mock-up.

There was no model of the Captain's Yacht ever build because the low bid for it to be built was around $50,0000, and that would have eaten up the budget of the show for the season (exactly why CGI should have been used on TNG in the first place.)

Yes, because CGI for TV shows was so good, and cheap, in 1987.

 

[JB2005]

^ Hey, now it may have been steam powered, but it worked!

 

[Cpt. Chris Pike]

You people are really reaching to explain away the fact the writers made Scotty out to be useless and a fool.

I am basing everything I say from what I have observed on the episode and movies. I haven't made up or speculated on anything.

Facts people, just the facts..

 

[Vanyel]

Regarding the SF Debris review of Relics:

Well, he flubbed the nature of the continuity error about Kirk, implicitly blaming it on Relics instead of Generations. -1

He doesn't know how to pronounce the word "archetypes". The "ch" is pronounced as in "choir", not as in "church". +0

As to why Scott and Franklin didn't repair the Jenolen, whereas Scott and La Forge did: well, Scott and La Forge only got impulse running. This is sufficient to wander around the sphere looking for the Enterprise, but not sufficient to get the Jenolen out of the system to safety, which is what Scott and Franklin needed to do, but could not. -1

He totally failed to comment about Troi being shoved over to the side. She has one line, "Goodbye," which I did find rather humorous. +0

At least his points about the broken arm were valid. +1

He does assert the validity of Scott's feelings. +1

He identifies Picard's motivation to make Scott feel genuinely useful. +1

Some of his parodying of Scott was marginally humorous. +1

He correctly identified that some of the technobabble in the episode was probably off. +1

For making an effort to post a video, and for anything else I might have missed in his favor. +1

Score of review = 4 / 10.

Wow. A review of the review. Pretty much the last thing I expected.

 

[DWF]

I loved Relics, the nods to various TOS and TNG eps. were nice and the story had a good moral to it which really fits with what Star Trek is all about. Plus James Doohan gave a great compassionate performance.

 

[Trekker4747]

As to why Scott and Franklin didn't repair the Jenolen, whereas Scott and La Forge did: well, Scott and La Forge only got impulse running. This is sufficient to wander around the sphere looking for the Enterprise, but not sufficient to get the Jenolen out of the system to safety, which is what Scott and Franklin needed to do, but could not. -1

Also, in the book version, Franklin was like an ensign, new recruit, guest-services guy on a transport ship. Probably not the greatest partner in feats of engineering when it comes to getting a ship back to reasonable functionality again.

And, yeah, video-review guy, the parts and technology Geordi brought along probably did help! Geordi's technology is decades more advanced so, yeah, it'd be more useful than anything Geordi and Franklin would have had.

The reviewer also seems to think that Scotty would be of some help in engineering, again, forgetting that Scotty's knowledge is scores out of date. As I said up-thread it'd be like a computer "expert" from 1940 thinking he had something to offer to a present-day IT guy.

THIS is ENIAC one of the first computers; it first went into operation in 1947.

From the article it consisted of nearly 17,500 vacuum tubes, 10,000 capacitors and had over 5-million hand-soldered joints. It was 8.5 feet by 3 feet by 80 feet in size and weighed 30 short tons. It ran at 100 kilohertz of processing power.

An Apple iPad has a 1Ghz process (10 million times faster than ENIAC) is 2000 times smaller and 177 million transistors (about 10,000 times more complex).

It also took weeks to program ENIAC to do the most basic of computational functions it takes people that long to make a complicated App for an Ipad/pod that can locate your position anywhere on the planet and tell you where the nearest restaurants, movie theaters and the gas prices at nearby gas-stations.

So, tell, me the head project leader over ENIAC; if he was placed today in the middle of Apple's production/design team would he be of any help? What if he was just at the Geek Bar at the nearby Apple Store would his rambling about having to change the burned-out vacuum tubes on ENIAC every hour be of any help?

Hell, Scotty comes close to electrocuting himself 10 seconds after stepping off the transporter pad!

I'm not saying Scotty could never be of any help to anyone ever again he's a capable man but he's need to re-educate himself on contemporary technology and interfaces.

Hell, taking someone from 1980's DOS-based computing to today's Window's based one would probably be enough to knock them for a loop without the advantages of the intervening time.

Sorry, Scotty's "place" may be in engineering but that doesn't mean if he was of any use or help to anyone in his present condition. In the span of a few minutes he runs into two things that are new that are likely something he'd never even heard of or know how it's done. (Something in the power system running at at a higher percentage, and the crystals being "re-crystalized" inside the chamber -something he claimed wasn't even possible in the 23rd century, although Spock in ST:IV seems to think it can be done with nuclear fission but I'm assuming "something else" is going on here as that strikes me a solution someone would have tried at some point and Scotty act a bit surprised/shocked by the revelation of the re-crystalization process.)

Scotty was out of place and in the way.

 

[Vanyel]

Geordi does let Scotty know that not everything has gone through huge changes:

Scotty: Bunch of old useless garbage.

La Forge: Huh?

Scotty: I said it old Mr. LaForge it can't handle the interface ("inter phase" maybe?) of your power converter. This equipment was designed for a different era. Now it's just a piece of junk.

LaForge: I dunno, it seems like some of its held together pretty well.

Scotty: A century out of date. It's just...obsolete.

LaForge: Well, you know, that interesting because I was just thinking that a lot of these systems haven't changed much in the last...75 years. This transporter is basically the same system we use on the Enterprise. Subspace radio and sensors still operate under the same basic principle. Impulse engine design hasn't changed much in the last 200 hundred years. If it weren't for all the structural damage, this ship might still be in service today.

Scotty: Maybe so, but when they can build ships like your Enterprise, who'd want to pilot an old bucket like this?

LaForge: I don't know, if this ship were operational, I bet she'd run circles around the Enterprise at impulse speeds. Just because somethings old, doesn't mean you throw it away.

So I think I have to revise my thoughts. Yes, Scotty was in the way and should have taken Crusher's advice and rested. But he could have been useful in studying the data the Enterprise was collecting. But then he and LaForge wouldn't have been able to save Enterprise.

Just an example, a friend of mine has been working on electronics, TV repair and the like since he was in his teens back in the 1980's, currently he repairs and tunes high end pipe/digital/combination organs. He's worked on old TV's that still used tubes, and has a TV that was made in 1980, 25" screen in his bedroom that he's kept in working order. Recently a mutual friends plasma HDTV broke down. The error code it gave said a board had failed and needed replacing. Checking around our friend got a cost to fix it. It cost ~$500 just for the board. My friend, after buying the schematics took the TV apart checked the board replaced a a capacitor and re-solder a few connections, put the TV back together, and the TV's working fine. He'd never worked on an plasma HDTV before, or any HDTV for that matter. The cost including buying the schematic $50.00.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

At least giving him a bigger shuttle would have been nice. (On with maybe an actual bathroom and food replicator.)

A runabout would have even been better.

But for production reasons, either would have been prohibitive, I guess.

Actually, the Captain's Yacht might have even been easier - they'd just need an airlock or gangway set for the crew to stand in front of to say their goodbyes (maybe just reuse the holodeck doors) and an external model of the yacht...no need to show us the inside, and of course, no need to build a large life-sized mock-up.

There was no model of the Captain's Yacht ever build because the low bid for it to be built was around $50,0000, and that would have eaten up the budget of the show for the season (exactly why CGI should have been used on TNG in the first place.)

Yes, because CGI for TV shows was so good, and cheap, in 1987.

Actually, CGI had been planned for TNG, but was stupidly not carried out, even though Babylon 5 would use CGI a few years later (and with a lesser budget than TNG.)