Thoughts on "Generations"

[eyeresist]

Rewatched GENERATIONS last night. It's a good-looking film, and there's so much good stuff in it, but the plot is a mess. It's easy to summarise the story, but when you watch it there is too much going on.

A couple of specific points:

The plot revolves around a couple of El-Aurians, Soran and Guinan, but it's not really explained who they are until halfway through, and even then it's glossed over. They're psychic (kinda), immortal (possibly), and Soran has an evil scheme that will end 230 million lives, but let's put that to the side to concentrate on Data dealing with emotions, Geordi being kidnapped, Klingons being wicked, and Picard being sad.

That said, I was impressed by the scene of Picard telling Troy about his family. The writing and acting are very strong.

The Klingon attack on the Ent-D is overcomplicated and implausible. As soon as Worf says "They have found a way to penetrate our shields," Riker should order the shield frequency to be changed. This should be a standard tactic.


The Nexus is the weakest part of the film, of course:

The directing, strong elsewhere, becomes TV-prosaic here and fails to support the plot points.
Picard's fantasy home is almost nightmarish with its dull red lighting and grotesque overdecoration.
When we meet Kirk, the film doesn't really sell that he is happy here; I thought that, when Kirk says duty and obligations only got him an empty house, there should have been a wide-shot for context, to show the realm of his contentment.
Kirk's horse skills are a silly distraction from a crucial scene.
And of course, they leave the Nexus with no explanation, and return to a point that is arguably cutting it fine (and why aren't there two Picards?).

A couple of interesting points about the Nexus:

1. It is a great concept. I think it's very TOS-like for Kirk to be caught in a dimension that seems to make his dreams come true. Just a shame it didn't pay off.

2. Towards the end of this sequence, Kirk says "maybe this is less about an empty house than that empty chair on the bridge of the Enterprise. Ever since I left Starfleet I haven't made a difference." From Kirk's POV, maybe Picard's offer is just another Nexus delusion?

3. Kirk says he met Antonia 11 years ago and left her 9 years ago. Going by movie release times, that puts his romance squarely between TMP and TWOK. If he hadn't returned to duty, he wouldn't have lost his son, his ship, and Spock, so I think it's understandable he would have regrets, even apart from his romance. It doesn't have to be an earth-shaking love affair to be preferable to a litany of death and destruction...

 

[HIjol]

Coincidentally, I also just re-watched "Generations" and would agree with much of what you point out in terms of plot, writing and weaknesses. I remember having one new thought as I watched it. In many ways, this was a "Kirk"/Shatner farwell vehicle. Not in every way, what with the Nexus plot line and the Soren/Guinan angles. But I wonder(ed) at some point, did a person or group at Paramount decide to start with the premise of Kirk being killed off, and then try to build a large portion of the rest of the movie around that premise?

Sure, there were kinda lame (IMO) moments; eggs with no bacon!; horse jumping (clearly Shatner-esque); though I thought the Reporter Gaggle on the Bridge was Choice!, and the pan/pull-away of the Nexus gash in the hull as Scotty answers, "Aye" still brings a tear or three.

Finally, I wonder if there are enough cutting room segments to do a redux, making things make a little more sense, and in a better sequence and order. I can make a strong narrative and visual in my head, and I don't know nothin', so I gotta believe that a Pro Editor could slice us up a "Generations" that would truly be for the Generations!

 

[Timo]

..there is too much going on

For once, I find "fast pacing" a great strength to the movie, rather than an annoyance. No, it's not really "fast", merely "packed", but it beats simplistic adventure plots, or complex conspiracy schemes with unreliable narrators, coming and going.

it's not really explained who they are

Which is why this is the optimal movie for Trek fans who already know most of this stuff yet learn a bit more anyway. But it's also something the audience doesn't need to know, just like a movie about refugees in the real world could use a "generic refugee" easily enough (name-dropping an origin country/conflict of no interest to the audience, or inventing a fictional country/conflict, or whatever).

Riker should order the shield frequency to be changed.

Agreed that it might have been fun to hear him say that. It wouldn't have worked, of course: the man doing the changing would have immediately betrayed the new frequency to the Klingons. But that's too subtly implicit in what happens there - a bit of explication might have helped.

This should be a standard tactic.

...Why? Shield frequency alterations only work against the Borg. Sometimes. There's no adventure where they would have helped against conventional enemies.

The Nexus is the weakest part of the film, of course:

Perhaps so, but I actually find the specific points to have the opposite effect.

- A change in directing "pace" is welcome, no matter what the nature of the change. After all, we just entered a different realm!
- Picard's civilian fantasy ought to be as different from his sterile work environment as possible.
- Kirk doesn't need to be happy. An underlying unease, an inability to settle down, is the very point of him being there. The quick jumps from fantasy to fantasy certainly achieve that. And the more distractions there, the better, for the same reason.

Kirk says he met Antonia 11 years ago and left her 9 years ago. Going by movie release times, that puts his romance squarely between TMP and TWOK. If he hadn't returned to duty, he wouldn't have lost his son, his ship, and Spock, so I think it's understandable he would have regrets, even apart from his romance. It doesn't have to be an earth-shaking love affair to be preferable to a litany of death and destruction...

A great point I haven't heard made before! Quite possibly, Kirk isn't trying to home in on the best possible niche in fantasy life with his constant jumps - he's trying to evade the hell that is his life, seeking moments where he could have chosen differently, but the dodging and weaving is no use.

eggs with no bacon

But Ktarian eggs have the bacon flavor built in!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[eyeresist]

This should be a standard tactic.

...Why? Shield frequency alterations only work against the Borg. Sometimes. There's no adventure where they would have helped against conventional enemies.

If shields have a frequency, it should be known that weapons using the same frequency are a hazard, so there should be basic countermeasures in place.

- Picard's civilian fantasy ought to be as different from his sterile work environment as possible.

I realise they were trying to show a dream-like fantasy, and the various elements like lighting and Victorian dress were supposed to be cosy, but they didn't have the desired effect. Don't you find that scene to have an oppressive atmosphere?

 

[Timo]

This should be a standard tactic.

...Why? Shield frequency alterations only work against the Borg. Sometimes. There's no adventure where they would have helped against conventional enemies.

If shields have a frequency, it should be known that weapons using the same frequency are a hazard, so there should be basic countermeasures in place.

But in that case, the measures would be built in and automatic - no need for Riker to call for their use, once he has said "Shields up!" or "Red alert!" or whatever.

For all we know, the number that LaForge relays to the Klingons is the frequency at which shields are rotated...

- Picard's civilian fantasy ought to be as different from his sterile work environment as possible.

I realise they were trying to show a dream-like fantasy, and the various elements like lighting and Victorian dress were supposed to be cosy, but they didn't have the desired effect. Don't you find that scene to have an oppressive atmosphere?[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Well, it has kids in it - and worse still, kids with expectations. Once you get past that, no, I don't think it's particularly oppressive.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[eyeresist]

For all we know, the number that LaForge relays to the Klingons is the frequency at which shields are rotated...

Okay, I'll allow that as a possibility..

 

[Timo]

I mean, it's clearly something the enemy sensors can't reveal by simply staring at your shields. It's not a property of the shields, then - so it might well be a formula by which the nature of the shields will change in the future, unpredictable to the enemy unless he has direct access to this telltale number somehow.

No, it won't be something developed as a response to the Borg. It's something that ought to have been there from the day shields were invented, or else shielding makes no sense. Against the Borg, the number we see might be madly rotating, putting a compound spin on the original spin...

OTOH, rotating the shields may well weaken them (if they change constantly, they don't have time to settle and solidify, or something), which is why that tactic is only ever used against the Borg and carefully avoided against everybody else.

I guess this rare once, the space battle scenes of a Trek movie could have been a bit longer and more complicated! Include Riker calling for shield "nutation" or whatever the term, LaForge complying, and the Klingons chuckling and adjusting their guns again. Show a bit more of the exchange of fire, so that we aren't left with the impression that Riker doesn't shoot back (he does, as per audio cues, but those aren't enough). Put even more emphasis on the fact that the Klingons can't believe their luck when their shields against all odds are actually holding (more Soran magic there, perhaps).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

The plot revolves around a couple of El-Aurians, Soran and Guinan, but it's not really explained who they are until halfway through, and even then it's glossed over. They're psychic (kinda), immortal (possibly), and Soran has an evil scheme that will end 230 million lives, but let's put that to the side to concentrate on Data dealing with emotions, Geordi being kidnapped, Klingons being wicked, and Picard being sad.

We tend to forget that we didn't actually learn all that much about Guinan's people on the TV show. In fact, IIRC Generations was the first time they were even given a name. Until then it was really just Whoopi saying "my people" a lot.

 

[Galileo7]

...
The Klingon attack on the Ent-D is overcomplicated and implausible. As soon as Worf says "They have found a way to penetrate our shields," Riker should order the shield frequency to be changed. This should be a standard tactic.
...

Agree.

 

[BillJ]

Bad movie, but we get to see the Enterprise on the big screen.

 

[Galileo7]

Bad movie, but we get to see the Enterprise on the big screen.

Agree. The 1701-D on the big screen was the best element of Generations because she looked wonderful both interior sets with revisions and exterior hull. Albeit, I wished that the NG crew had not lost this Galaxy class. I think the 1701-D should have survived all four NG films as Kirk's crew kept the 1701-refit/1701-A Constitution class for their six films.

 

[FormerLurker]

The plot revolves around a couple of El-Aurians, Soran and Guinan, but it's not really explained who they are until halfway through, and even then it's glossed over. They're psychic (kinda), immortal (possibly), and Soran has an evil scheme that will end 230 million lives, but let's put that to the side to concentrate on Data dealing with emotions, Geordi being kidnapped, Klingons being wicked, and Picard being sad.

We tend to forget that we didn't actually learn all that much about Guinan's people on the TV show. In fact, IIRC Generations was the first time they were even given a name. Until then it was really just Whoopi saying "my people" a lot.

It is this that has caused me to wonder whether Guinan is an El-Aurian, or just traveling with them. After all, no one in the 24th century knew anything about her people, yet the 23rd century crew know exactly who they are, El-Aurian refugees whose homeworld had been destroyed. Once I heard that Guinan was supposed to be and El-Aurian, I expected the next time I watched to hear some random 23rd century crewman say their homeworld was destroyed by the Borg. Something that thankfully wasn't done until Doctor Crusher let slip she knew the story.

Who is to say, really, with no other canon evidence, that Guinan is and El-Aurian, then? As I said, I got the impression she was just traveling with them, and had been there when the Borg came, and was identifying with them because she had actually experienced it once before already.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I'm in the minority on this, but I usually find Generations more watchable and enjoyable than First Contact. The Nexus is a little silly, Commander "HAP" Riker's command incompetence is fully brought to light, but I can overlook those.

The score is great and always gives me chills. Malcolm McDonald is always watchable as Dr. Sauron.

My only real complaints about this movie (besides the usual ones brought up by others) are that, for the first fifteen minutes aboard the Enterprise-B, it actually feels like we're watching Star Trek VII. Then, after it shifts forward 78 years, it feels like we're watching Star Trek: The Next Generation Season Eight. It may just be me, but there is a glaring contrast between the 23rd and 24th century portions that feels like a jump is made between watching a movie then watching a TV episode.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

As a movie, a complete dud. As a two-part episode of TNG, mediocre at best.

 

[Jeyl]

That said, I was impressed by the scene of Picard telling Troy about his family. The writing and acting are very strong.

I was listening to the writers' commentary track for the film and ironically, that's a scene Brannon Braga is pretty vocal about not liking on the grounds that no one wants to see Picard cry.

 

[BillJ]

That said, I was impressed by the scene of Picard telling Troy about his family. The writing and acting are very strong.

I was listening to the writers' commentary track for the film and ironically, that's a scene Brannon Braga is pretty vocal about not liking on the grounds that no one wants to see Picard cry.

I agree with Braga. And that's something I never thought I'd type.

 

[HIjol]

Bad movie, but we get to see the Enterprise on the big screen.

Agree. The 1701-D on the big screen was the best element of Generations because she looked wonderful both interior sets with revisions and exterior hull. Albeit, I wished that the NG crew had not lost this Galaxy class. I think the 1701-D should have survived all four NG films as Kirk's crew kept the 1701-refit/1701-A Constitution class for their six films.

Double Agree!

She was, and usually is, (except for the Duck Version) exquisite!

Maybe they can nuTimeline the thing, or whatever, and somehow find her and save her from Destruction!

 

[Timo]

the 23rd century crew know exactly who they are, El-Aurian refugees whose homeworld had been destroyed

Hmh? There's nothing about any homeworld in the 23rd century scenes. Nobody says where the refugees are coming from, or why - all we learn is that they are El-Aurian.

It's only in the 24th century scenes that more is told about the refugees, but that comes well after the TNG heroes have learned about the Borg and all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

Bad movie, but we get to see the Enterprise on the big screen.

Agree. The 1701-D on the big screen was the best element of Generations because she looked wonderful both interior sets with revisions and exterior hull. Albeit, I wished that the NG crew had not lost this Galaxy class. I think the 1701-D should have survived all four NG films as Kirk's crew kept the 1701-refit/1701-A Constitution class for their six films.

I totally agree. That having been said, I think they squandered their opportunity. We get maybe a dozen exterior shots of the ship in total, the first of which is a bad angle seen from behind. The interiors look great, & the scene where 1701-D escapes the collapsing Armagosa star is superb. But they really didn't have enough shots of the ship in space. It looked beautiful on the big screen, but we just don't see enough of it.

 

[eyeresist]

We tend to forget that we didn't actually learn all that much about Guinan's people on the TV show. In fact, IIRC Generations was the first time they were even given a name. Until then it was really just Whoopi saying "my people" a lot.

That's really the problem - we have two character essential to the plot, and we know nothing about them. Who is Soran? Some guy. Who is Guinan? The one who knew Soran from back in the day, but no further details except for basic plot points.

I really think that, if they'd used Spock instead of Guinan, it would have made the film much better, giving us protagonists we know and care about, and filling some of the biggest plot-holes. Imagine:

In the 23rd century, Ambassador Spock is leading a secret diplomatic mission to the Romulans. Kirk rescues both parties from a spatial anomaly - Spock is stunned; the Romulan ambassador seems to have gone mad.

In the 24th century, Spock explains the Nexus to Picard, and says the reason he survived the Nexus was his mental training and self control, whereas the Romulan, from a culture that rejected Vulcan ways, was vulnerable. Spock tells Picard, "The day that I was cast out of Paradise was also the day my best friend died."

When Picard meets Spock in the Nexus, this is past-Spock, not some hokey "echo". Spock mind-melds with Picard and understands the situation (thus creating a causal paradox). They find Kirk and convince him to help Picard. Kirk asks Spock to come with them, but Spock explains, "I cannot go with you to your destination because I am already there. I hope we will meet again ... soon."

Spock uses his mental powers to release them from the Nexus.​