This thread is genetically enhanced... Like Julian
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His reflexes and coordination were all enhanced, but there's nothing to suggest that Julian is particularly strong. Certainly not strong enough to counter Worf pinning him up against a wall.
I remember him saying that there were changes and he didn't know why. When does he say he chose to ignore them?
That's why I brought it up. He has his arrogance called out by Dax, and tries to set it aside after that.
Just found it in the script.
"I should've put it together... I
should've run more tests. But I
was so bent on finding a cure I
ignored the warning signs."
However, I can't find where he turned the research over to anyone else in that episode, so either I was misremembering that particular episode (likely) or it's addressed in another one down the line, less likely as that wasn't one of their serialized arcs.
EDIT:
OK, I just found a paragraph in Memory Alpha regarding his research that says, "Despite this breakthrough, which earned a commendation from his superiors, Bashir still researched the disease for some time before apparently giving up and presumably delegating the project to Starfleet Medical. (DS9: "The Quickening")"
THAT may be where I got the idea he abandoned it, but I honestly have no idea where they came up with it since it wasn't addressed in the episode itself, and further talk of the plague later in the series was about people wanting to weaponize it. Curious.
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Those lines aren't in the finished episode. Julian just says, "I should have put it together."
Regardless though, those lines absolutely back up that he let his arrogance take over. But they don't show that he was negligent due to pretending not to be smart. Even in early episodes when he was yet to be revealed as an augment, he would often tout his own medical brilliance, so it's not like he was ever pretending to be worse at his job than he really was*.
"I impressed myself on this one actually. I can't imagine what other doctor would even consider examining the scapular nodes for parasitic infection. I just seem to have a talent, I suppose. A vision that sees past the obvious, around the mundane, right to the target. Fate has granted me a gift, Major. A gift to be a healer."
*With the sole exception of the pre-ganglionic fibre story that he always trots out.
Regardless though, those lines absolutely back up that he let his arrogance take over. But they don't show that he was negligent due to pretending not to be smart. Even in early episodes when he was yet to be revealed as an augment, he would often tout his own medical brilliance, so it's not like he was ever pretending to be worse at his job than he really was*.
"I impressed myself on this one actually. I can't imagine what other doctor would even consider examining the scapular nodes for parasitic infection. I just seem to have a talent, I suppose. A vision that sees past the obvious, around the mundane, right to the target. Fate has granted me a gift, Major. A gift to be a healer."
*With the sole exception of the pre-ganglionic fibre story that he always trots out.
He single-handedly brought a generator from the runabout to the underground hospital in the middle of a Klingon bombardment. It seems like he was being very heroic, no?
Those lines aren't in the finished episode. Julian just says, "I should have put it together."
Regardless though, those lines absolutely back up that he let his arrogance take over. But they don't show that he was negligent due to pretending not to be smart. Even in early episodes when he was yet to be revealed as an augment, he would often tout his own medical brilliance, so it's not like he was ever pretending to be worse at his job than he really was*.
"I impressed myself on this one actually. I can't imagine what other doctor would even consider examining the scapular nodes for parasitic infection. I just seem to have a talent, I suppose. A vision that sees past the obvious, around the mundane, right to the target. Fate has granted me a gift, Major. A gift to be a healer."
*With the sole exception of the pre-ganglionic fibre story that he always trots out.
I stand corrected and clearly need to do a rewatch. I read more than I watch these days, and I think it definitely muddles the memory.
In the end, I don't think we can ascribe every failure, every faux pas, every dropped fork to Bashir not trying as hard as he could. He had many flaws, even after his genetic status was revealed, that were his own.
ETA: It's not like we're going to say that because he was trying to lay low, Bashir allowed himself to be captured by the Dominion and replaced by a changeling, are we?
you're right, and that was a two-man lift!
They do in the episode I referenced
From Take Me Out To The Holosuite-
Also, I apologize if I "argued too hard" at any point. This started as me wondering which eps might contradict the later reveal, and then "Nerd Facts!" started to get in the way, and you sometimes lose sight of the original point.
But the quote is too generalized to make an absolute fact of it. Sisko speaks of Worf and Bashir in the same way, so specifics are hard to glean. If Bashir is truly stronger than a Vulcan, then how strong is Worf?
Also, I apologize if I "argued too hard" at any point. This started as me wondering which eps might contradict the later reveal, and then "Nerd Facts!" started to get in the way, and you sometimes lose sight of the original point.
You didn't at all. It got me curious, too, and it was gratifying to get to the bottom of it. I appreciate pushback when I'm wrong.
I took at that reference to speed reflected Bashir more, and perhaps more in the sense that his enhancements might have helped improve his agility as a secondary skill.
In Distant Voices it’s implied he subconsciously sabotaged his pre-ganglionic nerve, but the augment thing makes it clearly intentional.
Like at the track meet in Incredibles when his family yells to him to come in second.
Like at the track meet in Incredibles when his family yells to him to come in second.
Sisko's statement does not say Bashir and Worf are stronger than Vulcans, they might have the same strength level. The only human Augments shown to be stronger than Klingons were the ones in ENT. However Kelvin Khan was as strong as Spock but Prime Khan was not all that strong.Also, I apologize if I "argued too hard" at any point. This started as me wondering which eps might contradict the later reveal, and then "Nerd Facts!" started to get in the way, and you sometimes lose sight of the original point.
But the quote is too generalized to make an absolute fact of it. Sisko speaks of Worf and Bashir in the same way, so specifics are hard to glean. If Bashir is truly stronger than a Vulcan, then how strong is Worf?
Sid felt the same way and pretty much deliberately sabotaged any scenes he had to do dealing with the enhancements. While I don't think that was the best approach, I do understand his frustration with the development.
Fate has granted me a gift, Major. A gift to be a healer."
*With the sole exception of the pre-ganglionic fibre story that he always trots out.
Guarantee you he'll never make that particular mistake again, though.
We celebrate people for their achievements all the time, no matter how talented/smart they are inherently or if they had to try harder. If those abilities stem from permanent, consistent changes, as opposed to a single shot of performance-enhancing substances, it's more indicative of their ability to use and adapt long-term to their strengths and weaknesses.
He keeps the award in the same way students who study hard, cramming and pull it off, and the one student with excellent recall who only needs to re-read his well-written notes a few times in the days prior to the test, both might get a perfect score on the same exam, albeit for different reasons and under different circumstances.
I am more forgiving: I see the change in Bashir's backstory as a clunky, but ultimately beneficial, development. By the time the filmed The Quickening, they had reached what they could do with a purely medical story. Once you have made your hero physician strand himself on a dark planet amidst a hostile population, where can you go? Certainly, Bashir was amazing in Nor the Battle to the Strong, but arguably we would expect that dedication from him.
Making Bashir genetically-enhanced made him a different type of commodity. It allowed them to talk about medical ethics in a different way. It allowed them to put Bashir more into the war narrative without too many contrivances. It made Section 31's interest in him logical. Subsequently, Bashir could experience the war in a unique way, and give a perspective beyond being the doctor who fixes the wounded.
Yeah, it allowed the subject of the debate to engage in the debate, to argue whether he should exist as he is now or not. Him saying he should be enhanced is seen as his personal bias; him saying he shouldn't is seen as him being a traitor to others like him and to his family.
Was a timeline where Julian remained as he was prior to his treatments (uncoordinated, under-developed, slow learner) ever explored in Treklit?
Was a timeline where Julian remained as he was prior to his treatments (uncoordinated, under-developed, slow learner) ever explored in Treklit?
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I don't think everything they did with the development was bad by any stretch, and I think you make some excellent points, @Bad Thoughts. But I can also see why Sid felt slapped and blindsided. It was such a huge twist. It fundamentally altered his character to the core. If I had been playing someone for years and thought I knew who they were, I'd find that a big adjustment, especially if they started trying to make me Spock or Data v. 2.1. I think to some degree, his pushback kept them from going too far into those weeds, and that was for the benefit both of the show and the character.
No offense to Siddig, but he could phone it in on many occasions, so I am not entirely sympathetic. However, I do take your point. It was an abrupt change of character, and those calculator scenes in Time to Standwere out of character even with the explanation of being genetically enhanced. Perhaps he could learn the rules of Tongo with a glance at the rules, but there was no way he was versed in quantum physics or game theory.
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