This not that
- Thread starter The Mirrorball Man
- Start date
I didn't call anyone rude. And people have gotten lazy and stupid. Thanks for helping.
What should it be then? To each its own?
Indeed. If you read again my comment, I said you have been the one being rude.
Case in point. Beside, it's also wrong. To give you an example, people have seen an increase in IQ of at least 10 points in the last decades.
My pleasure. I'll school you any time you want.
In my opinion you are both right: I very much agree on the part that people are incresingly getting lazy and stupid as far as the effort is concerned that it takes to be polite; and it's just as correct that all standards of language are made up.
I think it's a combination of both that is currently happening: people are too lazy or too stupid to be polite and therefore change the standards to a more rude tone.
The icreasing stupidity also shows in the many mis-spellings we have been complaining about in this thread. And all this 'spell it like you speak it (preferably in slang
) or like you type it on your cell phone' is in my opinion also a sign of times and their terrifying lack of proper education.
And, have you noticed how few of the young people can do sums or simple calculations in their heads?
The recent German spelling reform dealt with this general loss of education by adapting the rules to a lower standard instead of making people assume the higher standard.
Judging by the posts made in this thread, this appears to be a problem of international proportions. The question is: can we do something against it or do we have to resign to the masses (are they even masses or just individuals that stand out because of ther extraordinary stupidity?) and meet at the lowest common denominator?
I think it's a combination of both that is currently happening: people are too lazy or too stupid to be polite and therefore change the standards to a more rude tone.
The icreasing stupidity also shows in the many mis-spellings we have been complaining about in this thread. And all this 'spell it like you speak it (preferably in slang
) or like you type it on your cell phone' is in my opinion also a sign of times and their terrifying lack of proper education.And, have you noticed how few of the young people can do sums or simple calculations in their heads?
The recent German spelling reform dealt with this general loss of education by adapting the rules to a lower standard instead of making people assume the higher standard.
Judging by the posts made in this thread, this appears to be a problem of international proportions. The question is: can we do something against it or do we have to resign to the masses (are they even masses or just individuals that stand out because of ther extraordinary stupidity?) and meet at the lowest common denominator?
I would use: "to each his or her own", unless it was a purely male or female group I was referring to.
Oh Lordy, the letters to the Telegraph about that one would go twice round the Earth.
Don't you get messages like that, above self-sheckout/express checkouts in supermarkets.
(about) 15 Items or less, It just a shame that some people can't count as well. It can be quite annoying to be waiting in line behind someone with more than double that.
Oh I get them all right -I just cringe every time I read them.
ETA: Around here the expression is: "Maximum [some number] items."
ETA: Around here the expression is: "Maximum [some number] items."
You realize that you went from saying how it's tolerated to explaining how you will not tolerate it, right?
I use two because it's what I was taught. Although I certainly concede one is preferred and may technically be right assuming you don't agree with positivism, but it's certainly not worth fussing over.
As far as the less vs. fewer thing, I've heard an argument that this is a completely artificial rule like ending sentences in prepositions and splitting infinitives that never was reflected in actual practice and was just something grammar nuts liked to argue was the rule.
I learned to type when the class was still called "Typing" so I learned that way, too, but I am trying to get away from it. I think its usefulness was to break up the blocky monospaced typewriter fonts. It's not something I really notice, though, when I'm reading.
Yeah, a lot of prescriptivist stuff seems to come down to that.
Justin
One that always rubs my rhubarb is how we have "Joe and I, not Joe and me!" drilled so far into our heads that they now use the former when the speaker is the object.
I hear it all the time in TV/Movies.
I even remember hearing the grammar Nazi Ted Mosby say something along those lines once.
But often that is the case where the character was educated/intelligent enough to know the difference, but the writer was not.
The one space v. two spaces comes down to typeface and font--which is obviously a situational thing.
Since almost all fonts in modern word processors use proportional typesetting, single spaces are preferred. However, it is not a rule. It is only a suggestion. Both the MLA and the CMS regard it as such and take no stance either way.
On the other hand, when using a monospaced font--which is basically just Courier these days--using two spaces is a rule. And some of the stricter publishing houses have been known to reject manuscripts solely because the author chose not to follow it.
As a general rule though, it is stylistically (as opposed to just PC) to rephrase whatever you're writing to be gender neutral:
"Each writer can choose to style his post however he sees fit."
Becomes:
"Writers can choose to style their posts however they see fit."
Obviously, if speaking about someone, use the appropriate gender.
I hear it all the time in TV/Movies.
I even remember hearing the grammar Nazi Ted Mosby say something along those lines once.
But often that is the case where the character was educated/intelligent enough to know the difference, but the writer was not.
The one space v. two spaces comes down to typeface and font--which is obviously a situational thing.
Since almost all fonts in modern word processors use proportional typesetting, single spaces are preferred. However, it is not a rule. It is only a suggestion. Both the MLA and the CMS regard it as such and take no stance either way.
On the other hand, when using a monospaced font--which is basically just Courier these days--using two spaces is a rule. And some of the stricter publishing houses have been known to reject manuscripts solely because the author chose not to follow it.
Since the phrase is usually used as a indifferent rebuttal, just use the gender of the person you're speaking to.
As a general rule though, it is stylistically (as opposed to just PC) to rephrase whatever you're writing to be gender neutral:
"Each writer can choose to style his post however he sees fit."
Becomes:
"Writers can choose to style their posts however they see fit."
Obviously, if speaking about someone, use the appropriate gender.
I learned to touch type on a typewriter so it's unlikely that I'll switch from two spaces after a period to one. But since appellate briefs require one space, it is easy enough to check the autocorrect box in the word processing program to fix it for me. Problem solved.
Now, it's "I feel bad (about that)," not "I feel badly." The former expresses regret; the latter requires medical attention.
Now, it's "I feel bad (about that)," not "I feel badly." The former expresses regret; the latter requires medical attention.
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Few, fewer, fewest - Used with ”count” nouns,e.g., things you can actually count by number. Few people, fewer cars, fewest votes.
Little, less, least - Used with ”mass” nouns, e.g., things that cannot be physically counted but are measured by units. Also used with abstract nouns and concepts. Little hope, less sugar, least moisture, little water, less coffee, least importance.
Edit:
English diver and Olympic medalist Tom Daley posted a grammar question on Facebook the other day. ”Which is correct? A friend and I, or me and a friend?” I was surprised a native speaker of English would even post such a question, not that I was passing any judgment. Since the pronoun was used in the nominative case, most people got the answer right: A friend and I ...
Little, less, least - Used with ”mass” nouns, e.g., things that cannot be physically counted but are measured by units. Also used with abstract nouns and concepts. Little hope, less sugar, least moisture, little water, less coffee, least importance.
Edit:
English diver and Olympic medalist Tom Daley posted a grammar question on Facebook the other day. ”Which is correct? A friend and I, or me and a friend?” I was surprised a native speaker of English would even post such a question, not that I was passing any judgment. Since the pronoun was used in the nominative case, most people got the answer right: A friend and I ...
So many people these days cop out when they're not sure and say "Joe and myself," which is pretty much the only way to guarantee they are wrong regardless of context.
Ja! The misuse of reflexives/intensives annoys me.
"Irene and myself are going out on a date tonight." That sounds so ... redneck. Maybe it is redneck-speak.
These kinds of things don't bug me too much in speech because, honestly, if I'm talking to you, I may not take the extra few seconds to review my sentence to make sure I'm the subject/object/whatever. Grammatical mistakes bug me so much more in the written word where you can actually take the time to read what you wrote.
I also learned touch-typing on a typewriter. A big old manual typewriter. But I'm a professional typesetter so I understand why double-spacing after a period is no longer necessary.
I remember seeing a movie where a woman says "I feel badly" and Kirk Douglas corrects her. Can't recall the name of the picture.
Apparently some folks used to think saying that something "looks good" sounded common or vulgar, so they would say it "looks well" instead. If something looks well, that means it looks healthy. Fortunately, that pseudo-genteelism seems to have passed out of use.
"A friend and I went to the beach." (Subject.)
"The couple invited me and a friend to their wedding." (Object.)
Also, it seems the only time people use "whom" (the objective case of "who") is when they're trying to be correct -- but then they use it wrong. "Whom shall I say is calling?"
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