"Under infinity" is not very precise.
Things that made you go... Why? or How?
- Thread starter Discofan
- Start date
"Under infinity" is not very precise.
I'm sure the regulations aren't that specific, it's just that there's only one room that's a logical choice for such a meeting. I'm aware Kirk implies otherwise.
It's something that wouldn't be generally known to a random attacker, but with "Harrison" being Section 31, he'd certainly know or have access to the information.
Well, I wish you were right, but I think the line speaks for itself. And either way, it's an idiotic concept to begin with. The captains don't need to be present for a simple briefing and they should all be on their ships preparing for action (they can be briefed over comms) if someone thinks they'll actually be needed. The first officers don't need to be part of the briefing at all, and SF is damn lucky Khan didn't kill the whole command team of every ship in the system. And why is the fleet even leading here? Where are the ground security officials?
So why couldn't the computer be programmed to keep steering for Earth?
It seems to me the sick people were already dead, having perished in the years that passed for them before Kirk got himself sorted out. Or what does one make of that odd ending? We see Neela frozen on screen, but we don't see Neela communicating with Kirk. Uhura says it's a recording, and Kirk says it's not. To which Uhura seems to answer "Oh, yes, Sir, the sky is green and black is white today. I completely understand, Sir. Enjoy your moment of realization/denial."...
Seems prudent to me. It's not as if an enemy fleet is bombarding Earth or anything. Some lunatic just blasted an innocent library in London, to virtually no loss of life; the military holding a meeting within its secure facility sounds routine enough.
That the facility wasn't secure in the end is a plot twist. And it's due to an inside man - although the audience is deliciously left wondering whether the man who turned off the anti-spacecraft defenses was Agent Harrison alone, or Khan and Marcus working together. I mean, the attack served Marcus' interests much better than Khan's. These people must have seen Godfather III...
But the fact remains, the heroes have no reason (that the audience would be aware of) to think that going slower would have this effect of improving steering or avoiding salamanderizing.
The shuttle went really fast the two times it was used - needlessly and counterproductively fast both times. Nothing thus really suggests that it could go slower... Or that the pilot wouldn't suffer from the ride.
Timo Saloniemi
I think you've gone a little overboard here. Marcus almost died in the attack and you can see him being afraid for his life during. Marcus was a lot of things, most of them bad, but I doubt he was suicidal.
The thing is, he didn't die.
Marcus would have been the only person Khan wanted dead in that shooting. We later see Khan is an excellent marksman with heavy weapons. The odds of him failing to kill Marcus would have been exactly zero!
Instead, everybody standing in Marcus' way died. The only starship captain left standing was the young fool Marcus could trivially manipulate into doing this stupid thing no seasoned captain would do - and the manipulation benefited from (depended on!) Khan gunning down said skipper's idol right in front of him.
Heck, I'd go as far as say the bombing of the Kelvin Memorial Library was ordered by Marcus, too, as an excuse to arrange the penthouse slaughter meeting. A cut scene suggests it was not, but that scene was cut.
Marcus wanted a war. Immediately after the Godfather III incident, he had every piece of his plan ready and waiting for the action. There was Kirk, there were the long range torpedoes. There was "Harrison" at the Klingon homeworld - a destination Khan would never have chosen unless Marcus chose this for him.
Of course Khan had his own designs. But he was prisoner to Marcus, his crew held hostage. He would have to do the admiral's bidding for the time being. And it would be this exact bidding that he would turn in his favor. When two villains both believing themselves supersmart get at it, this is what you get...
...Including some good acting on Marcus' part.
Timo Saloniemi
Marcus would have been the only person Khan wanted dead in that shooting. We later see Khan is an excellent marksman with heavy weapons. The odds of him failing to kill Marcus would have been exactly zero!
Instead, everybody standing in Marcus' way died. The only starship captain left standing was the young fool Marcus could trivially manipulate into doing this stupid thing no seasoned captain would do - and the manipulation benefited from (depended on!) Khan gunning down said skipper's idol right in front of him.
Heck, I'd go as far as say the bombing of the Kelvin Memorial Library was ordered by Marcus, too, as an excuse to arrange the penthouse slaughter meeting. A cut scene suggests it was not, but that scene was cut.
Marcus wanted a war. Immediately after the Godfather III incident, he had every piece of his plan ready and waiting for the action. There was Kirk, there were the long range torpedoes. There was "Harrison" at the Klingon homeworld - a destination Khan would never have chosen unless Marcus chose this for him.
Of course Khan had his own designs. But he was prisoner to Marcus, his crew held hostage. He would have to do the admiral's bidding for the time being. And it would be this exact bidding that he would turn in his favor. When two villains both believing themselves supersmart get at it, this is what you get...
...Including some good acting on Marcus' part.
Timo Saloniemi
I beg to differ. I doubt Marcus would have been so confident that he would have trusted Khan not to kill him if he got the chance, knowing that Khan was a psychopath with a real reason for being mad at him, you'd have to be really naive to think that Khan would be kind enough to let you live and I say, you can see Marcus being really afraid for his life, more than it would befit a "courageous Starfleet hero". Plus they only discovered where Khan beamed away thanks to Scotty's investigation. Plus He had no way to know that Kirk would volunteer to do the dirty work. I don't think your scenario holds well together, it relies too much on either pure luck or crooks trusting each other.
I see your point - just from the other side.
Marcus is already trusting Khan with his life: he has left the superman loose as John Harrison, allowing him to play with weapons of mass destruction and most recently to walk the streets of London. Marcus is unconcerned with personal threat, because he knows Khan cannot kill him as long as the corpsicles are in his custody. The entire Khan-on-Earth half of the action stands testimony to Marcus having nothing to fear from the superman.
And the very fact that Marcus is cowering in a corner, unbecoming of a Starfleet officer, proves it's but an act.
We know Marcus is full of bravado when face to face with his enemies; OTOH, he needs an excuse for having survived the massacre, and cowardice does fine.
That Scotty uncovered evidence is but a conceit: somebody would have uncovered it anyway, what with it lying right there on Starfleet's porch. Khan wasn't necessarily meant to be shot down, but he was meant to be found, else there would be no war. So the evidence would have emerged one way or another (and inevitably so, because Scotty's supertransporter doesn't transport itself from A to B!).
And Marcus had Kirk's number down pat, as we see from the unfolding events. Never mind the writers try to soften the impact by having McCoy obliquely refer to head trauma as an excuse for Kirk being an idiot - Kirk was an idiot, and could be recognized for one miles away.
The crooks trusting each other is indeed what this is all about - because neither has a choice. They both know the other crook is the enemy, and is currently in the act of betraying the other somehow. But the have to play the game anyway. And Khan plays it from the underdog position, and plays it smart till the point where the clever plan of igniting the Klingon war (Marcus' desire) means Khan's crew travels to Klingon space (Khan's desire).
Whether Marcus really knew Khan had played that round, or was merely covering for his fumble when claiming to Kirk he knew the corpsicles were in the torps all along, is debatable...
...But the main thing is that Khan would have had no motivation to attack Starfleet in any fashion. It wouldn't hurt Marcus, and even if it did, it wouldn't get his crew free. And going straight for Marcus would be achieved if Khan really wanted that. If you don't believe in his demonstrated marksmanship, fine. Just have him install bigger guns on that (initially unarmed) air ambulance he stole, so that the first shot kills not just everybody in that room, but five thousand other people to be on the safe side.
Timo Saloniemi
Marcus is already trusting Khan with his life: he has left the superman loose as John Harrison, allowing him to play with weapons of mass destruction and most recently to walk the streets of London. Marcus is unconcerned with personal threat, because he knows Khan cannot kill him as long as the corpsicles are in his custody. The entire Khan-on-Earth half of the action stands testimony to Marcus having nothing to fear from the superman.
And the very fact that Marcus is cowering in a corner, unbecoming of a Starfleet officer, proves it's but an act.
We know Marcus is full of bravado when face to face with his enemies; OTOH, he needs an excuse for having survived the massacre, and cowardice does fine.That Scotty uncovered evidence is but a conceit: somebody would have uncovered it anyway, what with it lying right there on Starfleet's porch. Khan wasn't necessarily meant to be shot down, but he was meant to be found, else there would be no war. So the evidence would have emerged one way or another (and inevitably so, because Scotty's supertransporter doesn't transport itself from A to B!).
And Marcus had Kirk's number down pat, as we see from the unfolding events. Never mind the writers try to soften the impact by having McCoy obliquely refer to head trauma as an excuse for Kirk being an idiot - Kirk was an idiot, and could be recognized for one miles away.
The crooks trusting each other is indeed what this is all about - because neither has a choice. They both know the other crook is the enemy, and is currently in the act of betraying the other somehow. But the have to play the game anyway. And Khan plays it from the underdog position, and plays it smart till the point where the clever plan of igniting the Klingon war (Marcus' desire) means Khan's crew travels to Klingon space (Khan's desire).
Whether Marcus really knew Khan had played that round, or was merely covering for his fumble when claiming to Kirk he knew the corpsicles were in the torps all along, is debatable...
...But the main thing is that Khan would have had no motivation to attack Starfleet in any fashion. It wouldn't hurt Marcus, and even if it did, it wouldn't get his crew free. And going straight for Marcus would be achieved if Khan really wanted that. If you don't believe in his demonstrated marksmanship, fine. Just have him install bigger guns on that (initially unarmed) air ambulance he stole, so that the first shot kills not just everybody in that room, but five thousand other people to be on the safe side.
Timo Saloniemi
After Voyager made contact with Earth, why didn’t they update their uniforms?
Perhaps they adopted the old uniforms as their official Voyager uniform, with the sense of "we wear these on duty until we return". It adds to the unity between/united front of the two crews. (Neelix/Kes/Seven and the children are special cases) And given that the Maquis didn't exactly have uniforms of their own...well, I guess when the crew is off duty in civvies, that's their turn.
Kirk's ability to change his uniform while with Charlie Evans in the turbo lift! 
JB
JB
After Voyager made contact with Earth, why didn’t they update their uniforms?
Who says they had that type of material on board the ship and why should they if they're technically lost in space?
JB
Still doesn't explain the material change of phasers and tricorders starting with "INITIATIONS", first produced episode of season 2... coonciding with the first produced episode of DS9 season 4.
I suppose we can speculate that the computers/replicators on Voyager did this automatically due to Starfleet upcoming specs, but a quick throwaway line would have been nice.
Plus, given how resource scarce they were at that point in their journey home, I'm surprised they didn't keep some of the old versions around, just in case.
I suppose we can speculate that the computers/replicators on Voyager did this automatically due to Starfleet upcoming specs, but a quick throwaway line would have been nice.
Plus, given how resource scarce they were at that point in their journey home, I'm surprised they didn't keep some of the old versions around, just in case.
Replicators...
Kirk's ability to change his uniform while with Charlie Evans in the turbo lift!
JB
I'll have to watch that episode again as I don't remember that part.
Similar threads
