Things that don't add up the TNG edition

[Mojochi]

This one goes without saying but I'll say it anyway: Data and his inability to form contractions.

My theory is that Soong wanted Data to have some hurdles to overcome. Obviously, Data can use contractions, & we've actually heard him do it, & other Soong droids do it, so it's clearly within his capability, but he's programmed to think, he can't, & there may be some level of blocking going on. I think the same thing is true of his dream program, emotions etc... Soong made all these things unlockable, so he could force a journey of growth on him, & avoid another potential megalomaniac like Lore. Basically Data is Lore 2.0, the model with more safety features.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That little scene in First Contact where Picard yells at Worf and calls him a coward, then Worf goes "if you were any other man I'd kill you on the spot" so what are there a trail of unanswered murders somewhere in the Federation where Worf lost his temper?

 

[Karellen]

My theory is that Soong wanted Data to have some hurdles to overcome. Obviously, Data can use contractions, & we've actually heard him do it, & other Soong droids do it, so it's clearly within his capability, but he's programmed to think, he can't, & there may be some level of blocking going on. I think the same thing is true of his dream program, emotions etc... Soong made all these things unlockable, so he could force a journey of growth on him, & avoid another potential megalomaniac like Lore. Basically Data is Lore 2.0, the model with more safety features.

It sounds plausible. It's odd that unlocking dreaming is easier than unlocking contractions, but, given Dr. Soong's eccentricities, I suppose anything is possible.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That guy they were chasing in "The Hunted" did that guy just phase himself out of a transporter beam? And he had no supernatural powers or advanced tech

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Picard, a person who strongly opposes harming and exploitation of sentient clouds, parasites, self-aware tools etc., not only rides horses for fun but also owns a saddle, presumably so he can ride horse analogues on other planets.

This one goes without saying but I'll say it anyway: Data and his inability to form contractions.

It's not hypocritical to make a distinction between sapient and non-sapient.

My theory on the contraction thing is that Soong programmed in the problem with contractions to make him less intimidating to the other colonists than Lore.

 

[Finn]

That guy they were chasing in "The Hunted" did that guy just phase himself out of a transporter beam? And he had no supernatural powers or advanced tech

I always assumed he had some kind of device for that situation.

 

[Karellen]

It's not hypocritical to make a distinction between sapient and non-sapient.

It doeasn't really have anything to do with sapience.
Picard never needed a proof of Exocomps' sapience. He promptly organized a meeting to discuss the possibility that Exocomps might be alive after one of them exhibited a self-preservation mechanism that involved feigning death/malfunction. The conclusion of the meeting was, if something is alive it can't be exploited for work. Clearly, at least in Picard's eyes, this doesn't apply to exploitation for recreation (recxploitation) and lifeforms large enough to bear the combined weight of Picard and his saddle .

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It doeasn't really have anything to do with sapience.
Picard never needed a proof of Exocomps' sapience. He promptly organized a meeting to discuss the possibility that Exocomps might be alive after one of them exhibited a self-preservation mechanism that involved feigning death/malfunction. The conclusion of the meeting was, if something is alive it can't be exploited for work. Clearly, at least in Picard's eyes, this doesn't apply to exploitation for recreation (recxploitation) and lifeforms large enough to bear the combined weight of Picard and his saddle .

The distinction has always been about sapience. There's no connection at all between accepting non-humanoid things as sapient and suggesting no living thing can ever be used for work. Otherwise, everyone who owns a cat or dog is a hypocrite.

With the exocomps, yes, it was about sapience, they just used the word 'Life' as a stand-in word for sapience the audience can understand.

 

[Karellen]

Otherwise, everyone who owns a cat or dog is a hypocrite.

With the exocomps, yes, it was about sapience, they just used the word 'Life' as a stand-in word for sapience the audience can understand.

I haven't seen the episode in a while, so I don't remember the exact words that were used. I do remember that Data specifically discussed the definition of life with Dr. Crusher. This subsequently led to the meeting in which Picard determined that, I paraphrase, if there's even a possibility that the Exocomps are alive they can't continue to be exploited. The distinction between life and sapience was never brought up or considered as a factor in Picard's determination. Self-preservation was considered a sufficient proof.

As for pets, I suppose that truly is a gray area. Cats and dogs specifically. They are forcibly separated from their mothers and siblings and raised to live in a habitat that's not entirely natural to them. By the time they reach maturity most of them seem to become attached to their humans. How much of it is genuine affection and how much is food and shelter dependence? I have no idea. It's a life of comfort but it's still enslavement. I am absolutely certain, however, that riding a horse, an act that causes pain and emotional distress to the horse, is completely different from playing fetch with your dog or reading poetry to your cat while he completely ignores your existence. I refuse to believe that someone who's so cautious and deliberate in his actions toward even potentially "alive" entities wouldn't see the hypocrisy of his actions. My theory still stands, how can anything that involves the use of a saddle and the wind blowing through...uh, I mean, gliding over your scalp be considered exploitation.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well there is a thing of Using Exocomps in a place where they might die, and the stupid humans not caring, and a guy ridding a horse for fun.. thats like comparing an apple to a Bentley Roadster..

 

[DonIago]

I always assumed he had some kind of device for that situation.

My best guess was always that the Annual Confinement Beam used for transporters was never quite intended to hold back someone who was desperately trying to break free of it, because 99% of the time whatever's being transported is either inanimate or wants to be transported (successfully).

 

[Mojochi]

It sounds plausible. It's odd that unlocking dreaming is easier than unlocking contractions, but, given Dr. Soong's eccentricities, I suppose anything is possible.

It wasn't easy. In fact, he only stumbled on the dreaming through an accident. It might not have come around naturally for much longer, had he not been hit with that blast

My theory on the contraction thing is that Soong programmed in the problem with contractions to make him less intimidating to the other colonists than Lore.

This is also possible too, or a combination of both. All in line with the new goal of "Less like Lore", for the benefit of all

That guy they were chasing in "The Hunted" did that guy just phase himself out of a transporter beam? And he had no supernatural powers or advanced tech

He's had his physiology altered so no life signs can be detected. It's probably fair to assme he's had things done to him that allow him to disrupt fields & energy beams of other kinds as well

My best guess was always that the Annual Confinement Beam used for transporters was never quite intended to hold back someone who was desperately trying to break free of it, because 99% of the time whatever's being transported is either inanimate or wants to be transported (successfully).

I dunno. It's not like they'd have never transported prisoners before. Those certainly would want to escape & risk the kind of display Danar created. Troi seemed to think doing it would kill him. Clearly he was impervious to that outcome in some way, that probably means he's been altered either to withstand it, or to disrupt it, or some such thing

 

[NCC-73515]

Darwin station genetically augmenting humans despite Khan causing trouble and Bashir getting in trouble...

Horseback riding is made cruelty-free with antigrav saddles

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Darwin station genetically augmenting humans despite Khan causing trouble and Bashir getting in trouble...

Horseback riding is made cruelty-free with antigrav saddles

I just watched that episode and it stuck out like a sore thumb. What happened to the ban on genetic engineering that the Federation issued? Is Darwin Station exempt? They created their own little group of psi-corp brats.

Oh and Measure of a Man... Hmmm "Data is a toaster" to quote the JAG officer Phillipa Louvois. What a fantastic episode? She has moxxy and was foxy.

 

[DonIago]

I dunno. It's not like they'd have never transported prisoners before. Those certainly would want to escape & risk the kind of display Danar created. Troi seemed to think doing it would kill him. Clearly he was impervious to that outcome in some way, that probably means he's been altered either to withstand it, or to disrupt it, or some such thing

Oh I don't think it's really a good theory, but if the other option is that Danar somehow smuggled in or constructed a device under the nose of Our Heroes, that's TOS levels of shoddy security.

Granted the Klingons did it in "Heart of Glory" as well, but that's a really early episode and one would hope Our Heroes would have learned from it.

At least when that Kazon allowed himself to be taken prisoner in "Basics Pt. I" The Doctor noted his elevated red blood cell(?) count, even if he didn't understand the significance of it.

 

[DonIago]

I just watched that episode and it stuck out like a sore thumb. What happened to the ban on genetic engineering that the Federation issued? Is Darwin Station exempt? They created their own little group of psi-corp brats.

I'm pretty sure the all-out ban on genetic engineering was a retcon?

 

[trekshark]

I'm pretty sure the all-out ban on genetic engineering was a retcon?

I'm of the opinion it was a retcon too, or that when it happened in ds9 no one on the staff remembered the tng episode

 

[Mojochi]

Oh I don't think it's really a good theory, but if the other option is that Danar somehow smuggled in or constructed a device under the nose of Our Heroes, that's TOS levels of shoddy security.

Granted the Klingons did it in "Heart of Glory" as well, but that's a really early episode and one would hope Our Heroes would have learned from it.

At least when that Kazon allowed himself to be taken prisoner in "Basics Pt. I" The Doctor noted his elevated red blood cell(?) count, even if he didn't understand the significance of it.

I'm not saying he smuggled or built something, or even did anything specific to defeat it. He just manually forced his way out of the beam and survived, when someone normal probably would've been killed doing that, which is why no one ever really does it.

I'm saying we already know he was engineered to have some special things going on internally, like the one thing they mentioned earlier in the episode, being able to evade sensors by not giving off any life signs. He could also have some kind of bioengineering that disrupts some forms of energy wave, like a transporter beam, if he wanted to put up a fight against one. Lord knows, if you're building a super soldier in this universe, it would stand to reason that you wouldn't want to have them be vulnerable to enemy transporter beams being able to grab ahold of them

Which kind of makes you wonder why transporters haven't been weaponized in Star Trek

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Which kind of makes you wonder why transporters haven't been weaponized in Star Trek

Which would make for good storytelling. I can imagine how that would function.

 

[Mojochi]

Am I wrong, or have transporters been used to beam in explosive devices, on some variant of Star Trek before? If not, that's one application. Another would be locking on & beaming away enemy combatants, & by away, I mean not materialized