They Knew The Risks

[Kevin]

In Star Trek there is a very big line that always justifies the deaths of ensigns and non-main characters alike.

"They Knew The Risks"

Whenever a crew member dies and either a memorial service or someone counseling someone over there death the lines, "They Knew The Risks" always seems to come up. It is a way to show that the men and women who are killed knew that they might die and even might have expected it. Then when that line is said the commanding officer, under whom the individual, or individuals, died suddenly feels all better and all the guilt is lifted. So I made a crap call and now 8 children have lost their fathers. So what?!

The truth is, they probably wouldn't know the risks. Half of the people who die on the show are scientists/engineers. THe worst part is, the main characters are infalible and don't die. Here are some stupid examples.

*Some episode names may be in correct. I apologize if they are. I can never remember episode names*

In the episode Descent part 1 many security personnel are sent down to the surface. Geordi, Dianna, Picard, and an ensign head out together. The ensign is heavily armed with a phaser rifle. They all head out and find a building. They walk over to it and go inside. Suddenly, they are surrounded by "Individual" Borg. They are all standing together, and the ensign slightly apart. Suddenly the camera shifts to the ensign, only to see a borg raise his weapon arm and shoot him right in the chest for no reason. The ensign then dies and Picard stares stoically forward. The ensign is then forgotten.

In DS9, I don't know the episode name"

Jadzia, Worf, O'brien, Sisko, a runabout full of crew members and 2 scientists and an engineer are on the surface working. Suddenly a dominion ship crashes. They go to investigate. Later the captain is hailed by the run about. Moments later the run about is under attack and immediately destroyed. Then dominion ground forces move in. A scientist is shot and dies. They begin fighting. Obrien opens the hatch inside and they begin to get in. The other scientist is shot dead and the engineer is wounded. They make it inside and hole up. They are bombarded and the dominion treat them as an untrustworthy enemy. Later, the engineer dies and the changeling, which was why the dominion wanted the ship at all, dies. All the main characters survive. The Jem'hadar commit mass suicide and all non-main characters are dead. The captain is mourning there loss very deeply and Dax comes over and says, "They knew the risks." When I heard that line i wanted to reach through the TV and strangle them. It is very stupid how often things like this happen. it is rather disgusting and the writers made non-main characters too clumsy/stupid/incompetent. I do love Star trek, but i hate this.

 

[Timo]

The "Descent" thing sounds, well, logical... Of course the Borg would take down the man carrying the phaser rifle. And the man would know he's a prime target, just like the trooper lugging the flamethrower today knows he's dead meat. Everybody would expect that Ensign to die first; everybody (in-universe, not just here in the audience) would expect him to die, period. And there wouldn't be much he could do about it.

The really clumsy part about that is how the team that includes our main heroes is the one that stumbles onto the Borg, out of dozens if not hundreds of such teams. And how they do not wait for reinforcements before entering...

DS9 "The Ship" was a clumsier affair overall, but at least there's justification for where everybody is and how they are treated. Of course the main characters would beam down; the only potentially contrived part here is that they'd leave the runabout crewed at all, when usually they just abandon their craft in orbit on such missions. And of course the main characters, with combat experience, would find shelter faster than the inexperienced mission specialists.

And "they knew the risks" is a perfectly valid excuse if Picard or Sisko, off screen prior to the episode, does the usual "this is strictly volunteer" speech and receives nods overall.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Did you go into any Trek series expecting that at some point the principal characters would be killed off?

Perhaps it's not very realistic, but it _is_ the nature of television. The same way the Enterprise and DS9 aren't going to be destroyed in the course of the series...most likely.

Also, in most cases they _did_ know the risks. They may be scientists/engineeers, but they're also Starfleet officers. I doubt you can get through the Academy without hearing all kinds of tales about how things went badly for your predecessors.

Plus...hello, they're on a spaceship. That in and of itself is a risk.

 

[SmoothieX]

The truth is, they probably wouldn't know the risks.

You have a point. If I knew that if I beamed down to a planet on the away team I was going to get ambushed or come down with a fatal case of Tarkalean crotch rot, I'd stay in my bunk.

 

[Vanyel]

SmoothieX said:

The truth is, they probably wouldn't know the risks.

You have a point. If I knew that if I beamed down to a planet on the away team I was going to get ambushed or come down with a fatal case of Tarkalean crotch rot, I'd stay in my bunk.

No they know the risks. Just like in todays military. They are in a space ship, a ship powered by a controlled matter/anti-matter bomb. Beaming down to alien worlds, and in some cases, unknown worlds (I'm really surprised that an away team hasn't contracted some super-virus or bacteria that can kill in moments), is not safe (despite the advanced sensors of Starfleet that can spot Spock from Lord knows how far away), they can't always "see" everything, some microbes may remain inert until they are in the presence of a bioelectric field. As members of Starfleet they know that it's possible that they might have to go into battle to defend themselves, the Federation or a Federation ally. If they are on a mission of deep space exploration, they know that they may encounter a xenophobic, violent race, that would rather risk war than peaceful co-existence. They could come across some unknown anomaly that can cause havoc with a ship systems, like the anti-matter containment fields.

There are a lot more possible situations that could prove a risk to Starfleet personnel, and I would think that Academy training, or some sort of Boot Camp for the non commissioned or briefings for specialists and families would go over these potential risks with them.

 

[Vic Sixx]

Kirk "For this mission I assign myself, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, and ensign Ricky."

Ricky "Aw Crap".

From Futurama I think. The red shirts were always cannon fodder, we know any non main crew members are always gonna die. In Descent I think the ensign started to panic and raised the rifle, he was perceived as a threat, the others weren't.

Yes ensigns and security guys know the risks but so do modern police, fire-fighters, guys in the Army. Risk is part of life.

 

[Corran Horn]

The guy in decent made a move to fire just before he was killed. I remember because it was such a stereotypical moment from TOS.

(boy, good thing they just didn't kill Troi instead...)

 

[Borg451]

the line ur thinking of is from Family Guy.. dont get the two confused.. Futurama is far superior in most aspects..

^o)

 

[DrTaylor]

Vanyel said:

SmoothieX said:

The truth is, they probably wouldn't know the risks.

You have a point. If I knew that if I beamed down to a planet on the away team I was going to get ambushed or come down with a fatal case of Tarkalean crotch rot, I'd stay in my bunk.

No they know the risks. Just like in todays military. They are in a space ship, a ship powered by a controlled matter/anti-matter bomb. Beaming down to alien worlds, and in some cases, unknown worlds (I'm really surprised that an away team hasn't contracted some super-virus or bacteria that can kill in moments), is not safe (despite the advanced sensors of Starfleet that can spot Spock from Lord knows how far away), they can't always "see" everything, some microbes may remain inert until they are in the presence of a bioelectric field. As members of Starfleet they know that it's possible that they might have to go into battle to defend themselves, the Federation or a Federation ally. If they are on a mission of deep space exploration, they know that they may encounter a xenophobic, violent race, that would rather risk war than peaceful co-existence. They could come across some unknown anomaly that can cause havoc with a ship systems, like the anti-matter containment fields.

There are a lot more possible situations that could prove a risk to Starfleet personnel, and I would think that Academy training, or some sort of Boot Camp for the non commissioned or briefings for specialists and families would go over these potential risks with them.

They know the risks in the sense of they know that there is always the risk of something horrible and unpredictable happening that could kill them.

 

[Vanyel]

Kevin said:
In Star Trek there is a very big line that always justifies the deaths of ensigns and non-main characters alike.

"They Knew The Risks"

Whenever a crew member dies and either a memorial service or someone counseling someone over there death the lines, "They Knew The Risks" always seems to come up. It is a way to show that the men and women who are killed knew that they might die and even might have expected it. Then when that line is said the commanding officer, under whom the individual, or individuals, died suddenly feels all better and all the guilt is lifted. So I made a crap call and now 8 children have lost their fathers. So what?!

The truth is, they probably wouldn't know the risks. Half of the people who die on the show are scientists/engineers. THe worst part is, the main characters are infalible and don't die. Here are some stupid examples.

*Some episode names may be in correct. I apologize if they are. I can never remember episode names*

In the episode Descent part 1 many security personnel are sent down to the surface. Geordi, Dianna, Picard, and an ensign head out together. The ensign is heavily armed with a phaser rifle. They all head out and find a building. They walk over to it and go inside. Suddenly, they are surrounded by "Individual" Borg. They are all standing together, and the ensign slightly apart. Suddenly the camera shifts to the ensign, only to see a borg raise his weapon arm and shoot him right in the chest for no reason. The ensign then dies and Picard stares stoically forward. The ensign is then forgotten.

In DS9, I don't know the episode name"

Jadzia, Worf, O'brien, Sisko, a runabout full of crew members and 2 scientists and an engineer are on the surface working. Suddenly a dominion ship crashes. They go to investigate. Later the captain is hailed by the run about. Moments later the run about is under attack and immediately destroyed. Then dominion ground forces move in. A scientist is shot and dies. They begin fighting. Obrien opens the hatch inside and they begin to get in. The other scientist is shot dead and the engineer is wounded. They make it inside and hole up. They are bombarded and the dominion treat them as an untrustworthy enemy. Later, the engineer dies and the changeling, which was why the dominion wanted the ship at all, dies. All the main characters survive. The Jem'hadar commit mass suicide and all non-main characters are dead. The captain is mourning there loss very deeply and Dax comes over and says, "They knew the risks." When I heard that line i wanted to reach through the TV and strangle them. It is very stupid how often things like this happen. it is rather disgusting and the writers made non-main characters too clumsy/stupid/incompetent. I do love Star trek, but i hate this.

In Descent that the ensign, and others that were sent down, should have know that they may encounter Borg on the planet, and that’s why they were heavily armed. If he couldn’t have figured that out on his own, I doubt he would be in Starfleet.

In the DS9 Episode the same thing applies, they were going after a crashed Dominion ship, in or near Dominion Space. The whole crew should have known that they were on a very dangerous mission with a high probability of casualties including fatalities.

It’s quite possible that in one death several children could lose a parent or be orphaned. It’s just a reality of being in Starfleet. I think it was Picard who told Wesley that it never gets easy when someone under your command dies. But they are trained on how to get through the experience and on how to handle the emotions and the doubt they must go through (Maybe that’s why there are counselors on the ship). If they can’t, they’d start second guessing they’re every move, and then become a real danger to those under their command.

 

[Kevin]

Vanyel said:
In the DS9 Episode the same thing applies, they were going after a crashed Dominion ship, in or near Dominion Space. The whole crew should have known that they were on a very dangerous mission with a high probability of casualties including fatalities.

They were on a mineral survey. The ship crashed after they got there.

Anyways. Really, I am not saying that no Non-main characters should ever die. i am just saying, they should be at least a partial hero or help in an episode. Like, let em kill a few enemies and still come out alive. Send in two ensigns and let one come back alive. It's just that having the main characters always 100% save the day is rather boring after a while. i wanna see an ensign shoot an enemy that is about to slice the captain open and still have the ensign live.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Kevin said:
The truth is, they probably wouldn't know the risks. Half of the people who die on the show are scientists/engineers.

Well, they would - because exploration is dangerous business. Just look at the first people to attempt desert crossings, mountain ascents, the colonization of Australia, expeditions to the North and South Poles, the men of Apollo, the crew of two space shuttles...

 

[scottydog]

I also think that uttering the line, "They knew the risks," doesn't completely relieve the commanding officer from guilt. The show might end with everyone feeling better knowing that they knew the risks, but those deaths have to haunt survivors for a long time. Survivor's guilt is very common. Now that you mention it, I'm surprised there haven't been more episodes devoted to survivor's guilt.

 

[Kevin]

What surprises me is that non of the main characters ever had a mental breakdown in any of the series. They've been tortured, shot, seen countless people die, lost true loves, gone through very traumatic situations. The list goes on...

 

[scottydog]

Maybe the mental breakdowns occur off-camera. Along with going to the bathroom

 

[Vic Sixx]

Picard had a breakdown in "Family", and Troi had one sort of when she lost her powers. Although they still go the bathroom off camera.

 

[Kevin]

Well I am talking about like full mental breakdowns. hallucinations, being discharged from star fleet for being suicidal. The full deal.

 

[Therin of Andor]

^ Captain Garth (TOS) was in an asylum for the incurably insane.

 

[DonIago]

O'Brien almost committed suicide at one point because he couldn't deal with (even via hallucination) killing someone.

 

[tafkats]

DonIago said:
O'Brien almost committed suicide at one point because he couldn't deal with (even via hallucination) killing someone.

Well, sort of. Except that in the hallucination, he killed a fellow prisoner because he thought the other man was hoarding food, then discovered he was planning to share it with O'Brien. Not the same situation as killing an enemy in the line of duty.